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Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? #752270
10/11/18 4:56 am
10/11/18 4:56 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,251
Gnashville
DavidP Offline OP

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Gnashville
The Trident seems to have some sort of red tank liner in the petrol tank, kinda maroon transparent looking stuff.
In any case, the dye leeches into the fuel. I guess the stuff burns all right, but if the carbs puke a little when I tickle them the overflow spills on the engine and tints the cases red.
How long do I have to put up with this crap?
What genius put a soluble dye into a tank sealant?


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
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Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #752303
10/11/18 11:36 am
10/11/18 11:36 am
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 750
Orlando fla/ shady valley Tn
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bill50cal Offline
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Orlando fla/ shady valley Tn
say what you want to but slosh in tank liners are a bad idea. they all will fail at some point and than you will have a real mess to deal with. the best thing to do is fix it right or replace the tank.


windy
72 combat
switchbackcreek.com
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #753084
10/17/18 4:18 am
10/17/18 4:18 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,251
Gnashville
DavidP Offline OP

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DavidP  Offline OP

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Gnashville
That certainly was helpful


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #753129
10/17/18 3:22 pm
10/17/18 3:22 pm
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 634
Denver CO
J
Jerry Roy Online content
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Denver CO
Just in case it will ease your mind, Google or Bing "RedKote" and read all about it.
And just in case you have computer problems, try this site:
http://damonq.com/Techsheets/Red-Kote.pdf

And remember the old adage, "99 percent of functional deficiencies are due to operator error"

If the Red Kote was applied to a properly prepared surface, it is good for the ages.
Or at least to your dotage. crazy

JR

Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #753232
10/18/18 5:51 am
10/18/18 5:51 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,251
Gnashville
DavidP Offline OP

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I don't know if this stuff is actually Red-Kote or some other brand, but that tech paper says nothing about dye leeching into the fuel.
I can think of no reason to add the color in the first place.
In any case, I plan to buy a large can of acetone to get the stuff out. I will not have spilled fuel coloring my engine cases!!
Just more lame-ass "engineering."
If you're gonna spend five years learning how to build things at least DO IT RIGHT!


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #753261
10/18/18 1:04 pm
10/18/18 1:04 pm
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 634
Denver CO
J
Jerry Roy Online content
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 634
Denver CO
Originally Posted by DavidP
I don't know if this stuff is actually Red-Kote or some other brand, but that tech paper says nothing about dye leeching into the fuel.
If you're gonna spend five years learning how to build things at least DO IT RIGHT!


Uuuh, a close reading of paragraph 3 might enlighten you a bit. wink

https://sallyharmon.zenfolio.com/p814167873

Once if quits leaching, your problem is solved.
Impatience leads to excess work.

JR

Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #753326
10/19/18 6:08 am
10/19/18 6:08 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,251
Gnashville
DavidP Offline OP

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I have tested the premium from several local stations. It runs 5% alcohol or less.
There are stations with "pure" gasoline, but none in premium grade.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #753340
10/19/18 12:50 pm
10/19/18 12:50 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,107
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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Running from demons in WNY
In my opinion,tank liners are an excuse not to repair the tank using proper metal working techniques..MEK will usually remove it if you give it time..


I take off bike parts until it doesn't function, then put on just enough so it functions
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #754695
10/31/18 8:40 pm
10/31/18 8:40 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 451
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Offline
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rocketscientist  Offline
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
From memory........ (not)

Red-Kote is a solvent-based polymer coating for lining gasoline tanks on motorcycles, cars and trucks. It has limited applications with aviation gasoline, diesel fuel, and some racing fuels. Biodiesel, racing fuels and methanol-containing fuels/fuel additives should be tested prior to use as they may attack Red-Kote. Red-Kote is easy to use if the directions are followed closely. It seals the multitude of small leaks that often form where the straps wrap around the tank. You fix the obvious leaks and Red-Kote seals the rest. Contrary to what some people will tell you, rust does form inside gas tanks. The causes are condensation in the tank and water in the gas. Red-Kote seals light rust under the coating so it cannot flake off to plug fuel-line filters or cause engine damage. Further rusting is also reduced. Some of the specific advantages of Red-Kote are as follows: 1. The coating is very flexible and does not crack as do some of the others. This gives the repair a much longer life. Tanks coated in 1984 are still doing well. 2. The polymer was specifically chosen because of its tight adhering qualities. In comparison to some other coatings, RedKote does not peel off even when the metal is bent. This protects against loosening of the coating by vibration or denting of the tank. 3. Methanol. In the U.S. the federal government allows a maximum of 5% of methanol in gasoline. Red-Kote is not affected by up to 10% methanol. Greater than 10% methanol will leech the red dye out and turn the fuel red, but the Red-Kote remains tightly bonded to the metal. Some fuel tank liners are dissolved by methanol into sticky lumps and strings that plug the fuel line. This will not happen with Red-Kote. 4. Ethanol. Red-Kote works fine with E10 to E50 mixtures (10% to 50% ethanol). Red
Kote generally has performed well in longterm E85 testing. E85 can be anywhere from 51% to 85% ethanol depending on the manufacturer, county and time of year. Longterm testing with E95 shows some deterioration of the Red-Kote. We don’t recommend higher than E85 mixtures or E100, 100% ethanol.. 5. Red-Kote dries faster than many other sealers saving you time. You can reduce time further by thinning with Acetone and using two thin coats instead of one thick coat. 6. Red-Kote levels very well. You will not get a wide variation in thickness as with some other coatings. 7. Red-Kote is thicker and usually requires only one coat as opposed to two coats for many other coatings. Holes up to 1/32nd (1mm) may be coated and sealed safely. Rust is sealed in so that it cannot flake off. 8. The bright red color is easily visible so you can be sure you didn't miss a spot. Some coatings are almost invisible. Packaging: Red-Kote is available in one quart metal cans packed 9 per case or in one gallon metal cans packed 1 per case. It is backed by our guarantee and our over 70 years of service to the automotive industry. Warranty: Damon Industries, Inc. warrants its products to be free of defects in material and workmanship as delivered in the original container. Liability is limited to replacement of product found to be defective. This warranty is in lieu of all other warranties, expressed or implied. Damon Industries guarantees the product only, not your application of it. Performance and length of service is totally dependent upon the user following the instructions exactly. Warranty applies only for gasoline tanks or diesel tanks that you have discussed with our chemist and have properly sand blasted prior to coating.

Last edited by rocketscientist; 10/31/18 8:47 pm.
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #754697
10/31/18 8:46 pm
10/31/18 8:46 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 451
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Offline
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
I removed a gooey mess from my velo tank (Kreem?).... cleaned it with MEK several times to get the old crap out. The tank was not a leaker.. I STILL redkote lined it, I've never had redkote fail. I use it to seal a GOOD tank, not fill holes in a bad tank. My preference. No worries with the dye leeching out. It makes the plastic disposable filters a nice shade of Pink though!

Says is works to 50% ethanol. Around here 10% is the norm. I usually removed the ethanol anyway OR make a trip to the airport. I do that for my small engines and winter fuel. When riding in the summer, just use reg. pump 10%.

Seems that in pump gas, you can have a petroleum / methanol / ethanol blend. Maybe its the methanol rather than ethanol causing the color leech? still ....only a cosmetic problem. The red dye is probably there to aid in making sure you have good coverage during the install.

From wiki on methanol: However, for optimizing engine performance, fuel availability, toxicity and political advantage, a blend of ethanol, methanol and petroleum is likely to be preferable to using any of these individual substances alone.




Works for me. YMMV. good luck.[b][/b]

Last edited by rocketscientist; 10/31/18 9:01 pm.
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: rocketscientist] #754706
10/31/18 9:53 pm
10/31/18 9:53 pm
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 750
Orlando fla/ shady valley Tn
B
bill50cal Offline
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Orlando fla/ shady valley Tn
and here is an article that states what i have been warning about this home brew of striping out the ethanol. NOT a good idea.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/gasoline_octane_and_ethanol_E10.html

Originally Posted by rocketscientist
I

I usually removed the ethanol anyway OR make a trip to the airport.

.[b][/b]


windy
72 combat
switchbackcreek.com
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: bill50cal] #754709
10/31/18 10:03 pm
10/31/18 10:03 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 451
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Offline
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rocketscientist  Offline
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
Originally Posted by bill50cal
and here is an article that states what i have been warning about this home brew of striping out the ethanol. NOT a good idea.
http://www.fuel-testers.com/gasoline_octane_and_ethanol_E10.html

Originally Posted by rocketscientist
I

I usually removed the ethanol anyway OR make a trip to the airport.

.[b][/b]



no need to buy them fancy thar testers.... If starting with 93 octane e10 , expect a 3-5 pt octane drop removing the ethanol.. fine enough for my low compression 52 Velo Mac. Yes, there will be pre igniton problems in higher compression engines. That's where the trip to the airport comes in.

I think the ethanol will do more damage itself.....AND even worse if water is in the fuel. I'd rather have a little out of balance additive mix without ethanol for when the fuel is in the bike for a long period. ethanol will destroy the rubber, and the absorbed water will separate and rot the tank. I'll take my chances with no ethanol. PURE GAS in not available at the pumps within 100miles of me......

Why would you say its NOT a good idea?

Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #754714
10/31/18 11:03 pm
10/31/18 11:03 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 48
cherry valley, ca
D
Doug Lightfoot Offline
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cherry valley, ca
Doesn't really help with the question at hand but I'm always suspect of non-catalyzed sealers. I've had good luck with Caswell tank liner, epoxy based, catalyzed and seems to be impermeable to nearly all chemicals.


1970 BSA A65L
1974 Yamaha RD350
2008 Yamaha WR250R
1967 HD Sprint 250 SS
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #754735
11/01/18 5:38 am
11/01/18 5:38 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,251
Gnashville
DavidP Offline OP

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DavidP  Offline OP

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Gnashville
Put a couple of gallons from anther station in, Shell. So far it comes out clear when I tickle the carbs.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #755130
11/05/18 11:12 am
11/05/18 11:12 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,082
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Not trying to run the old girl on Red Diesel were you David? eek only teasing, although it does make me wonder what the fuel station was up to (if they were up to anything at all)


beerchug
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: Allan Gill] #755225
11/06/18 4:27 am
11/06/18 4:27 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,251
Gnashville
DavidP Offline OP

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I can't say, Allan.
Though I have stopped buying premium at the first station. The last time I filled the Bonnie there I got some water with my petrol.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #755292
11/07/18 4:27 am
11/07/18 4:27 am
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 301
Sacramento, CA
Denis J Offline

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Sacramento, CA
Most fuels will turn red...takes about 2weeks. I see it in my bikes in the que. All the filters turn red as they sit. Prime them, run em and no more red fuel.
..treating with Startron, Briggs, K100...still eventually changes color, but works fine

NEVER pull the ethanol out of your fuel...you are changing the octane to a much lower level. It’s a fact of life, just leave it in and jet richer.

Liners:
Personal experience...red kote will eventually end up in your Carb. Sorry guys

2 tanks last month came in same issue both Red Kote.

Kreem peels
Caswell flakes
Eastwood sticks intake valves
...have not had an issue yet with Kwik Poly...still waiting

Installer error of course....but if you prep the tank correctly and fix the leaks correctly you don’t need a liner.

To remove: Fill it with Acetone..kiss your paint goodbye. Wait 2-4 weeks then wash it out. De rust, repair the leaks and then don’t let it rust again

I hope this helps. Doom and Gloom is always a bummer. Just ride it and do some wheelies!




The formula for how many motorcycles to own is:
n+1=n
n = the number of motorcycles you currently own.

“You can wheelie any bike if you just try”

Broken Motorcycle Mechanic at The Vintage Monkey in Sacramento, CA ...Old Motorcycle Specialists
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #755391
11/08/18 6:33 am
11/08/18 6:33 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,251
Gnashville
DavidP Offline OP

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DavidP  Offline OP

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Gnashville
"The formula for how many motorcycles to own is:
n+1=y
n = the number of motorcycles you currently own."

You left out the loop.
Let n=y
Next n


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Red tank liner corrtupting fuel? [Re: DavidP] #755507
11/09/18 6:36 am
11/09/18 6:36 am
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 301
Sacramento, CA
Denis J Offline

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Denis J  Offline

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Sacramento, CA
Ah Ha! Thank you


The formula for how many motorcycles to own is:
n+1=n
n = the number of motorcycles you currently own.

“You can wheelie any bike if you just try”

Broken Motorcycle Mechanic at The Vintage Monkey in Sacramento, CA ...Old Motorcycle Specialists

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