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Cam pinion spindle IN #752315
10/11/18 12:59 pm
10/11/18 12:59 pm
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 67
Gothenburg, Sverige
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TrophyTR6 Offline OP
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Joined: May 2017
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Gothenburg, Sverige
Hello!

When I disassembled my -56 DBD34 engine I noticed that my inlet Cam pinion spindle had some sort of a relief valve inside it. This is my first GS so not very familiar with these engines but the spindles I have seen before haven’t had this valve. Does this spindle come from anotherBSA engine? Do I need to look for a new spindle or should this be ok? It’s hard to tell from the pictures but there’s a spring and a ball inside the spindle and the ball is on the timing side

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Regards/ Chris


• BSA Gold Star DBD34 1956
• Triumph Trophy TR6 1959
• Zündapp KS125 1973
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Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: TrophyTR6] #752328
10/11/18 2:45 pm
10/11/18 2:45 pm
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 294
Norfolk England
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DBDBrian Offline
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Norfolk England
Hi Chris, I have seen this type of spindle in the past, but their origin seems to be unknown, or at least to me. It has been discussed on the forum previously, BSA did experiment with a plain Big End which would have required a relief valve in the system, but to the best of my knowledge it did not go into general production.
Thinking about your crankshaft, which would appear to be a one off, has it been stripped yet ? It would seem by the look of the rod it has a roller bearing of some type, but if it has a plain bearing, it could be the answer to your question.
If you end up using a roller bearing B/E of whatever type, I would recommend fitting a standard spindle with no valve .


Brian

Made In England
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: DBDBrian] #752361
10/11/18 8:02 pm
10/11/18 8:02 pm
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 67
Gothenburg, Sverige
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TrophyTR6 Offline OP
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Gothenburg, Sverige
Great information, thank you Brian!!
Yes my crank is stripped and my engineer found why the timing side shaft had moved in to the cheek. It was made by KWP a Danish engineer (Phil Pearson knew of him). The shafts are not centered but actually of axis to balance the hole thing. Unfortunately the hole for the timing side shaft wasn’t the same diameter all through and the shaft therefore didn’t have enough press fit. After talking it over with my engineer I decided to buy a new one. So a new crank is on its way from Phil Pearson along with a few other bits to rebuild my engine. It looks like I need to find a new spindle then, don’t want risk anything with a new crank.

Cheers/ Chris


• BSA Gold Star DBD34 1956
• Triumph Trophy TR6 1959
• Zündapp KS125 1973
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: TrophyTR6] #752430
10/12/18 10:29 am
10/12/18 10:29 am
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,273
Middle East,
Kerry W Offline
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Kerry W  Offline
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Middle East,
You shouldn't have any issues finding a spindle..B31/33/BB part number 65-2425 'Cam Pinion Spindle (Inlet)' would probably do, though the DBD part is 65-2509 'Cam Spindle IN)'. No idea what the difference is - I'd have thought they were the same!


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: Kerry W] #752436
10/12/18 12:34 pm
10/12/18 12:34 pm
Joined: May 2017
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Gothenburg, Sverige
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TrophyTR6 Offline OP
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Thanks Kerry W! I did some interweb searching yesterday and found nothing on 65-2509. I did find a couple of 65-2425 on eBay and will order one today and hope it will work

Cheers/ Chris

Last edited by TrophyTR6; 10/12/18 12:37 pm.

• BSA Gold Star DBD34 1956
• Triumph Trophy TR6 1959
• Zündapp KS125 1973
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: Kerry W] #752443
10/12/18 2:55 pm
10/12/18 2:55 pm
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 294
Norfolk England
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DBDBrian Offline
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Originally Posted by Kerry W
You shouldn't have any issues finding a spindle..B31/33/BB part number 65-2425 'Cam Pinion Spindle (Inlet)' would probably do, though the DBD part is 65-2509 'Cam Spindle IN)'. No idea what the difference is - I'd have thought they were the same!


Hi Kerry, There seems to be a bit of ambiguity with the part numbers.
BSA numbers G/S DB/DBD cam spindles are listed as 65-2509 IN 65-2426 EX

Another source listed 65-2425 as EX spindle 1946 -50 and IN spindle 1946-63 The later type spindles are handed with the flat on the spigot for the crankcase bore. To prevent distortion of the main bearing housing and are usually stamped IN & EX. Which puts into conflict the year dates quoted above, as these numbers were obtained from a none BSA listing, I have my doubts as to them being correct.

I have in the past obtained genuine BSA spindles, but no part numbers were attached as confirmation of type, B31/33 or Golstar.


Chris, I think you will only know for certain when your 65-2425 purchase arrives, was it listed as genuine of repro ?
The off centre location of the main shafts in your crank, explains how whatever balance factor used was obtained. Thanks for the info.


Last edited by DBDBrian; 10/12/18 5:51 pm.

Brian

Made In England
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: Kerry W] #752448
10/12/18 3:37 pm
10/12/18 3:37 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,834
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Magnetoman Online content

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Originally Posted by Kerry W
B31/33/BB part number 65-2425 'Cam Pinion Spindle (Inlet)' would probably do, though the DBD part is 65-2509 'Cam Spindle IN)'. No idea what the difference is
I don't know what the difference is, either, but it seems there really is a difference. The B31/B33 never got past the BB development stage, and the BB Gold Stars used the same 65-2425 inlet spindle as those bikes. All we know at this point is that for some reason BSA saw fit to introduce a new spindle for the DBD GS while keeping the old one in production for the B31/B33. That could have been a simple inventory oversight, or it could be because there is a functional difference. So, absent more information coming to light, I would be cautious about substituting an old for a new.

Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: TrophyTR6] #752538
10/13/18 3:44 am
10/13/18 3:44 am
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,273
Middle East,
Kerry W Offline
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Kerry W  Offline
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Middle East,
When the difference is identified it would be idly interesting to know! The part numbers I quoted above came from original BSA parts books.


No generalisation is wholly true, not even this one.
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: Kerry W] #752631
10/13/18 3:33 pm
10/13/18 3:33 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,834
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Kerry W
When the difference is identified it would be idly interesting to know!
Shedding some more light on the part numbers, the 1954 GS parts book that covers both the BB and the just-introduced CB shows the same "early" 65-2425 part number for the inlet spindle of the CB. However, a 'Spares Supplement' for 1954 and 1955 Models' shows the "early" 65-2425 for a "normal" CB but the "late" 65-2509 for a Clubman CB.(*) A 1957 set of 'Supplemental Sheets' from BSA East for 1954-55 CB, 1955-56 DB, and 1956-57 DBD says for the CB to use the parts book (ignoring the existence of the 'Spares Supplement') but for the '55-56' DB it shows the "late" 65-2509.

Anyway, although the above doesn't offer any clues as to the difference between the two spindles it does indicate non-Clubman CBs left the factory with the "early" spindle but Clubman CBs and then all DBs and DBDs used the "late" spindle.

(*) This is interesting because the earliest CBs were prepared for the Isle of Man so I wonder if they discovered issues with the spindle under racing conditions that caused a change to the design that is reflected in the supplement issued the next year. Still, why wouldn't they have just issued a blanket change of that part for all CBs?


Last edited by Magnetoman; 10/13/18 3:51 pm. Reason: (*)
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: TrophyTR6] #752673
10/13/18 11:56 pm
10/13/18 11:56 pm
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 45
city island ny
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hunter h Offline
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city island ny
cheers just checked my GS cases they are stamped 12 3 56 and are DB 12XX if anyone is keeping track and they also have the check valve . hunter

Last edited by hunter h; 10/13/18 11:58 pm. Reason: goof
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: Magnetoman] #752692
10/14/18 1:37 am
10/14/18 1:37 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,893
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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Sydney Australia
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by Kerry W
When the difference is identified it would be idly interesting to know!
Shedding some more light on the part numbers, the 1954 GS parts book that covers both the BB and the just-introduced CB shows the same "early" 65-2425 part number for the inlet spindle of the CB. However, a 'Spares Supplement' for 1954 and 1955 Models' shows the "early" 65-2425 for a "normal" CB but the "late" 65-2509 for a Clubman CB.(*) A 1957 set of 'Supplemental Sheets' from BSA East for 1954-55 CB, 1955-56 DB, and 1956-57 DBD says for the CB to use the parts book (ignoring the existence of the 'Spares Supplement') but for the '55-56' DB it shows the "late" 65-2509.

Anyway, although the above doesn't offer any clues as to the difference between the two spindles it does indicate non-Clubman CBs left the factory with the "early" spindle but Clubman CBs and then all DBs and DBDs used the "late" spindle.

(*) This is interesting because the earliest CBs were prepared for the Isle of Man so I wonder if they discovered issues with the spindle under racing conditions that caused a change to the design that is reflected in the supplement issued the next year. Still, why wouldn't they have just issued a blanket change of that part for all CBs?



Could very well have been a materials change to a substantially more expensive grade of steel


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: TrophyTR6] #752857
10/15/18 12:29 pm
10/15/18 12:29 pm
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 67
Gothenburg, Sverige
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TrophyTR6 Offline OP
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Joined: May 2017
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Gothenburg, Sverige
I just talked to Phil Person about my order and he had some very interesting information regarding the cam pinion spindles. Up to engine nr 3001 (mine starts with 24) BSA used the oil pressure relief spindle 65-2509 and after engine 3001 spindle 65-2425. There is also another version of the 65-2425 that had a smaller flange in the very late engines. He also said that relief valve spindle was fitted at the same time the timing cover oil seal and uprated oil pump and intended to use with a plain big-end bearing just like DBDBrian said. But this big-end never went into the production models. It will be ok to use the relief spindle with a roller big-end since there's little pressure. Thanks for the information Mr. Person!

I was also informed that my crank and other parts for my engine is soon on its way.. can't wait to start building this engine smile

Cheers / Christoffer


• BSA Gold Star DBD34 1956
• Triumph Trophy TR6 1959
• Zündapp KS125 1973
Re: Cam pinion spindle IN [Re: TrophyTR6] #752900
10/15/18 5:35 pm
10/15/18 5:35 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,834
U.S.
Magnetoman Online content

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Magnetoman  Online Content

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U.S.
Originally Posted by TrophyTR6
Up to engine nr 3001 (mine starts with 24) BSA used the oil pressure relief spindle 65-2509 and after engine 3001 spindle 65-2425.
I didn't think to check it before, but BSA's 1963 list of replacement parts shows 65-2509 had been replaced by 65-2425.


Moderated by  Rich B 


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