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Britbike qualifier #751922
10/08/18 11:48 am
10/08/18 11:48 am
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 987
Ontario Canada
Don Leaming Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Don Leaming  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 987
Ontario Canada
I know that we are limited to British made bikes on this site and I agree with that. My question is, do the new Royal Enfield Madras built bikes qualify since their design studio and concept engineers were mostly English. No?
Particularly the new 650s which seem to have generated some interest among the Britbike crowd.
My 2 cents lies with the discussion of these bikes and their ilk (ie: Triumph) should be limited to the R&T. The Royal Enfield section should be for the English bikes.
Looks like their might be a BSA from the east someday too.
Cheers
Don


1965 Royal Enfield Interceptor
1969 Triumph Tiger 650
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Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #751933
10/08/18 2:18 pm
10/08/18 2:18 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,176
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,176
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I would think they'd qualify, inasmuch as they were originally Brits. Same would go for the Mahindra BSA.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #751938
10/08/18 2:32 pm
10/08/18 2:32 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,743
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline

BritBike Forum member
Al Eckstadt  Offline

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,743
Jordan, NY
Good point, Don. The 535 Continental GT and new 650 twin frames were designed by Harris Performance - a British company. Acquisition of Harris by Eicher Motors (Royal Enfield India) was completed in 2015. But Harris is located in Britain and employs British workers. So there is more than a casual connection to an old marque.

When the New Triumphs came on the market here in the US, Triumph wanted not to be associated with the old company - until they found the retro market was hot. Royal Enfield for a short time dropped the "Royal" but now welcomes association with its past.

I will have to agree with Don that a line should be drawn and discussion limited to the Rod & Tappet. We would not want to be overwhelmed with everyone and their cousin discussing their 1999 Bullet in the RE forum. There are numerous forums for Indian Bullet owners and I am certain forums will arise for the new twins as well.
My two cents, Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #751955
10/08/18 4:10 pm
10/08/18 4:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,322
Vermont
Jon W. Whitley Offline

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Jon W. Whitley  Offline

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Posts: 7,322
Vermont
I would put them in the British motorcycle category since that is where their roots are and they appear to be keeping the tradition and names alive.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project

Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #751977
10/08/18 6:49 pm
10/08/18 6:49 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,800
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content

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MikeG  Online Content

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,800
New Hampshier USA
Or just start a different sub forum for modern Brit bikes?


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Al Eckstadt] #751983
10/08/18 7:46 pm
10/08/18 7:46 pm
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,165
Derbyshire UK
BeezaBryan Offline

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BeezaBryan  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,165
Derbyshire UK
Originally Posted by Al Eckstadt
. Royal Enfield for a short time dropped the "Royal" but now welcomes association with its past.


Al


India Enfield was the trade mark used for many years.
It was only after much litigation in the British legal system regarding the ownership of the Royal Enfield trademark that the machines could and were legally badged Royal Enfield.
There were no other changes in trading name.

Transcripts of the final judgement dated 27th July 2001 are available in pdf form but are very weighty reading


Blessed are the curious for they shall have adventures

"He knows not where he's going,
For the ocean will decide,
Its not the destination,
It's the glory of the ride”
(Edward Monkton, Zen Dog)

Bryan



Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #751991
10/08/18 9:10 pm
10/08/18 9:10 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,021
Asheville, NC
Mike Baker Offline
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Mike Baker  Offline
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Posts: 2,021
Asheville, NC
There was a display of the new Enfield bikes at Barber. They appear to be quite nice, finish wise.

Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752005
10/08/18 11:28 pm
10/08/18 11:28 pm
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,905
Charleston SC
Ob1quixote Offline
BritBike Forum member
Ob1quixote  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,905
Charleston SC
They have some new REs at a shop around the corner.

Generally, their lines are nice, but WTH were the doing when they designed the headlight and shroud?
Looks like an afterthought.
Hope it illuminates better than it looks.


When singing "Kung Fu Fighting" is outlawed, only outlaws will sing "Kung Fu Fighting"
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752065
10/09/18 3:21 pm
10/09/18 3:21 pm
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,533
NYC and York PA
wadeschields Offline

BritBike Forum member
wadeschields  Offline

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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,533
NYC and York PA
"but WTH were the doing when they designed the headlight and shroud?
Looks like an afterthought.
Hope it illuminates better than it looks."

first point of customization then maybe smile


I welcome R&T discussions on Modern Britbikes..... Or if it becomes over popular do create a seperate sub forum... The later may even bring in new members who will then see the rest of us talking old bikes and maybe they will even get on board with an older bike ..... Even Hugh at 6th Street Specials has had to make the move to the dark side..... Working on modern Triumphs shocked


Last edited by wadeschields; 10/09/18 3:28 pm.

http://wadeschields.tumblr.com/

Jack of all trades . Master of fun! wink

Beer is not the Answer.... Its the Question..... The answer is YES

[Linked Image]
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752086
10/09/18 5:23 pm
10/09/18 5:23 pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,230
Netherlands
Peter R Offline

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Peter R  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,230
Netherlands
Personally I think that we should give modern British bikes and Indian made Enfields a place on this forum. We may attract a different breed of bikers, possibly younger generation, but that can cause no harm imo, although I would prefer separate forums for these bikes.
I believe that the average age of the Britbike forum members is relatively high, and in a number of years we may all have RIP behind our login names.
Nothing wrong with Hinckley Triumphs or Enfiels, and maybe soon Indian made BSA's ?

Last edited by Peter R; 10/09/18 7:43 pm.

Peter.
1974 Commando 850
1972 Trident T150T
1961 Goldie DBD34
1969 Benelli 250 sport special
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752093
10/09/18 6:19 pm
10/09/18 6:19 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,619
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

BritBike Forum member
Tridentman  Offline

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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,619
New Jersey USA
I agree that we should welcome the newer Triumphs , Royal Enfields etc on this site.
Otherwise over a period of years the site will start to fade away as many of us become fossilized.
However I would not like to see for example the Meriden/Priory Street Triumphs mixed up with the Hinckley Triumphs as they are so different.
But separate forums on the Britbike site--Yes.
Just my two cents worth of course.

Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752099
10/09/18 7:31 pm
10/09/18 7:31 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,743
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline

BritBike Forum member
Al Eckstadt  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,743
Jordan, NY
I am very interested in the new twin Enfields and waiting to hear when KW in Buffalo gets them in. The BSA, if it happens, made by Mahindra should prove interesting. Mahindra sells tractors here - I've never worked on one - but they sell a lot of really cool small cars, trucks, SUV type vehicles in India. I would love to see those little utilitarian vehicles sold here in the US. They resemble Suzuki Samurais and mini Jeeps.

I suppose separate forums would be acceptable. As I said before I would not want to have to sort through alot of "moderns" to get to the "vintage" posts.


Al Eckstadt
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Al Eckstadt] #752111
10/09/18 8:39 pm
10/09/18 8:39 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,800
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content

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MikeG  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,800
New Hampshier USA
[quote=Al Eckstadt]I am very interested in the new twin Enfields and waiting to hear when KW in Buffalo gets them in. The BSA, if it happens, made by Mahindra should prove interesting. Mahindra sells tractors here - I've never worked on one - but they sell a lot of really cool small cars, trucks, SUV type vehicles in India. I would love to see those little utilitarian vehicles sold here in the US. They resemble Suzuki Samurais and mini Jeeps.

I suppose separate forums would be acceptable. As I said before I would not want to have to sort through alot of "moderns" to get to the "vintage" posts.[/quote

My local Suzuki dealer has these on the lot:


https://freedomcyclenh.com/Utility-...NH-223bfb92-b6f3-4dc3-bd2c-a8db00ea1efcG


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752115
10/09/18 8:51 pm
10/09/18 8:51 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,743
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline

BritBike Forum member
Al Eckstadt  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,743
Jordan, NY
Wow! I had no idea they were for sale here, Mike.


Al Eckstadt
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752140
10/10/18 1:10 am
10/10/18 1:10 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,800
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content

BritBike Forum member
MikeG  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,800
New Hampshier USA
I've not looked at them up close, but the seem pretty expensive for what the are. I guess if the quality is there it's not too bad, and it is a diesel.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752142
10/10/18 1:58 am
10/10/18 1:58 am
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 987
Ontario Canada
Don Leaming Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Don Leaming  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 987
Ontario Canada
I’m interested in them too but they are not the same company, not the same bike, they just use the same name. Kinda like the new Commando And Triumph suppose.
That’s why I would like to talk about them in “the pub”. If there was enough interest a dedicated forum for the modern bikes would be fine. There isn’t one for the new Commando or Triumph though is there. They are both actually assembled in the UK are they not?
Don


1965 Royal Enfield Interceptor
1969 Triumph Tiger 650
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752177
10/10/18 2:58 pm
10/10/18 2:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,800
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content

BritBike Forum member
MikeG  Online Content

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,800
New Hampshier USA
Originally Posted by Don Leaming
. They are both actually assembled in the UK are they not?
Don



I don't know about the Norton, but my Triumph was assembled in Thailand. AFAIK all the new Triumph retro bikes are assembled there and the "new" design sport and adventure bikes are built in the UK.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752254
10/11/18 1:14 am
10/11/18 1:14 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 671
Great Southern Land
tridentt150v Offline
BritBike Forum member
tridentt150v  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 671
Great Southern Land
Lots of us have both anyway. If not then then are considering it, or not adverse to it.
I have both Imperial Triumphs and a Metric Bonnie. I know from discussions on the RAT forum that others have a similar mix.
But I think we should draw the line at British or British derived, if there is no long and strong English link or heritage then they don't get a guernsey IMO.


Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752261
10/11/18 1:52 am
10/11/18 1:52 am
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 60
Canterbury, New Zealand
B
BevanC Offline
BritBike Forum member
BevanC  Offline
BritBike Forum member
B

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 60
Canterbury, New Zealand
I think that it is legitimate to include Indian made Enfields on a forum like this, if only for that fact that it is Enfield India that kept the "British" flag flying, producing a thumper for decades after Enfield U.K. (and ALL other British motorcycle manufacturers) went bust. Enfield India was initially an assembly, then manufacturing, off-shoot of Redditch - they kept going when RE folded; to me that makes an Indian Enfield essentially a British bike.

A lot of people disparage the Indian made Enfields, but I've had 30,000 trouble free miles out of my bog standard, cast iron, 4 speed Bullet, and it got me into British bikes - I now have a BSA, an Ariel & a Panther. It is unlikely that would be the case if it were not for the fact that I fell for the Enfield while riding it through India - starts first kick and is a joy to ride.
Just my two cents worth smile
Cheers,
Bevan.
ps
I'd probably not apply the same argument to a Mahindrha BSA - no history there, just a purchased brand name I think.

Last edited by BevanC; 10/11/18 2:12 am.
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752308
10/11/18 12:12 pm
10/11/18 12:12 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,176
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
BritBike Forum member
GrandPaul  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,176
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I just think if it looks anything like this, it's pretty cool...

[Linked Image]


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752311
10/11/18 12:31 pm
10/11/18 12:31 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,743
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline

BritBike Forum member
Al Eckstadt  Offline

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,743
Jordan, NY
That is decent looking. I'd like to see specs including curb weight. Mahindra is making a new Peugot 300cc bike which is not bad looking but is not a retro bike.
I should say that we allow India made Enfields into our Euro Bike Ride In, as well as Urals which I suppose are not European (but what are they?). And I am sure that these bikes do contribute greatly to bringing new people into the vintage bike hobby.
But I support a separate forum category or categories for the "new" bikes.


Al Eckstadt
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Al Eckstadt] #752318
10/11/18 1:29 pm
10/11/18 1:29 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,176
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
BritBike Forum member
GrandPaul  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,176
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Originally Posted by Al Eckstadt
That is decent looking. I'd like to see specs including curb weight.

In my opinion, this rendering looks like what the 441 might reasonably have become over time.

However, being that this is a BRIT bike forum, I suppose it's stretching things. Kinda sad to see a great British marque being emigrated...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752467
10/12/18 7:07 pm
10/12/18 7:07 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Online content
BritBike Forum member
Andy Higham  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
A

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
My few penn'th
The Indian Royal Enfield company is a direct descendent of the Redditch company, it was set up to produce bikes for the far eastern markets
Triumph have a manufacturing facility in the far east for similar reasons. it is cheaper to ship a few hundred bikes into the UK than to export a few thousand the other direction
The AJS company is a direct descendent of the company that was absorbed into AMC, NVT. The Cadwell 125 is a good looking well finished bike
Mahindra have manufacturing facilities in France, they make Peugeot scooters.
The chances of a bike being entirely produced in one country is almost zero, industry is now global with parts being sourced from all over the world


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752468
10/12/18 7:12 pm
10/12/18 7:12 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,962
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Offline
BritBike Forum member
Irish Swede  Offline
BritBike Forum member
I

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,962
Elburn, Ill. USA
Mahindra is now selling tractors in the USA. I don't know if they are being built here, but they are selling well and owners seem happy with them.

Re: Britbike qualifier [Re: Don Leaming] #752469
10/12/18 7:26 pm
10/12/18 7:26 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Online content
BritBike Forum member
Andy Higham  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
A

Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,301
Bolton Lancs UK
Is my grass track bike British?
The frame and forks were made by Nu-Trak in my home town of Bolton, Lancashire
The wheels are made by Talon in Yeovil, Somerset
The gearbox is Bewley,
The clutch is NEB
All British apart from the Jawa engine made in the Czech Republic


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
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