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Sloper timing cover fasteners #750888
09/29/18 3:39 am
09/29/18 3:39 am
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 55
Canterbury, New Zealand
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BevanC Offline OP
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Canterbury, New Zealand
Hi folks,
Can anyone please tell me what thread size & type is supposed to be for the timing cover fasteners on a 1929 ohv Sloper ? Reason for my question is that the handbook recommends using two of these to compress the clutch springs by threading them into the thrust plate so you can fit the clutch centre nut, but a PO has replaced my timing screws with metric items, so I don't know what I need.

The corresponding question is, of course, what is the thread of the holes in the clutch spring thrust plate smile

Cheers,
Bevan

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Re: Sloper timing cover fasteners [Re: BevanC] #750911
09/29/18 10:25 am
09/29/18 10:25 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,860
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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Well Bevan,
If yo had asked me this on the street the answer would have been 1/4" WW without a thought.
However being at home with the luxury of the library to reffer to it says 1/4" UNC which quite frankly I find hard to believe
However they are both 20 tpi in that diameter so buy one of each and see which is the best fit.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Sloper timing cover fasteners [Re: BevanC] #750957
09/29/18 8:18 pm
09/29/18 8:18 pm
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Canterbury, New Zealand
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BevanC Offline OP
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Canterbury, New Zealand
Thanks Trevor,

Yes, UNC seems a touch unlikely.

I know exactly where on my Panther there is a 1/4 ww fastener, so I'll give it a try once it warms up in the garage sufficiently. Changeable spring weather here - very warm one day and freezing the next ! No major rush actually - I will have to wait for the missing friction plate and replacement springs before I can get the Sloper back into action.

Cheers,
Bevan

Re: Sloper timing cover fasteners [Re: BevanC] #750958
09/29/18 8:38 pm
09/29/18 8:38 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
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chaterlea25 Offline
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Cork Ireland
Hi Bevan and Trevor,

From my experiences with 20's /30's BSA's the timing cover screws are usually 26tpi
Easily stripped and difficult to repair due to the lack of metal on the surrounding case bosses
that may be a reason why the cases were changed to metic (6mm?)

John

Re: Sloper timing cover fasteners [Re: BevanC] #750959
09/29/18 9:15 pm
09/29/18 9:15 pm
Joined: May 2004
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Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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Yes John,
I rather thought it funny to be listed as UNC being that the name UNC did not come in till 1946 so if the parts list is accurate it woud have been listed as USS or SAE.
Oddly enough the same parts listing shown B & M series as being 1/4 UNC also which again I would have thought to been WW at least till WWII .
Now it is day light i will check what is in the L & B downstairs, although it is a long bow to expect the fasteners in there now to be original.

Edit after some checking
So the only 2 cases from that era downstairs with a rear mounted magneto have coarse threaded holes and the parts book lists BSA # 24-460 as the timing cover bolt / screw either 9 or 10 depending upon weather it is a single or twin port.
The forward mounted chain driven magnetos all use M 588 screws ( 4 or 5 of them ) and they are all 1/4" CEI as you posted.
If the manual suggest using them to compress the clutch springs I would have expected them to be CEI but then again we can not be sure if the book Bevan is using is for the vertical SV / OHV engine or the sloper OHV engine.

Will be poping up to Shane's place a bit latter today so will check his Model S .
Would not be the first time my fastener list was wrong and always look forward to correcting it .
However it does get confusing as the S was available in 4 configurations


Double checked on Shane's Model S Sloper and the timing covers screws are in fact 1/4" WW
So the suggestion in the manual will most likely be reffering to the S Std or S Deluxe vertical cylinder bikes which have chain driven magnetos and CEI screws in the timing cover.

Last edited by BSA_WM20; 09/30/18 3:34 am. Reason: Done some more checking

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Trevor
Re: Sloper timing cover fasteners [Re: BevanC] #750985
09/30/18 8:16 am
09/30/18 8:16 am
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Posts: 55
Canterbury, New Zealand
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BevanC Offline OP
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Canterbury, New Zealand
John,
You are certainly correct about the thin case walls and the difficulty of repair - see what the last owner left for me:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HaqECHzipkd7QXljXegL9cIqINXmiMCR/view?usp=sharing

Also, notice the cork ? It is plugging a hole in the case. Even more interesting is what I found when I removed the magneto pinion:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tTIMGg9em-OOH64GvUB5QCGqLhdVHAp7/view?usp=sharing

This is what it is supposed to look like:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GTP5RLDJRL-iTJB1af1GjMF5m18fc2Ek/view?usp=sharing

For the time being, I have reassembled things with some extra sealant while I ponder the next move. All the timing side threads are in pretty bad condition also.

Any suggestions welcomed !!!

Cheers,
Bevan

Re: Sloper timing cover fasteners [Re: BevanC] #750988
09/30/18 9:11 am
09/30/18 9:11 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,860
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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Most of the older castings were strait Al-Si which goes brittle over extended periods of time as the silicon migrates to the gain boundries then comes out of solution.
A decient welder can fix that without too much trouble but it will have to be some one who can Oxy weld aluminium.
The silicon around a clutch or rear hub felt sleeve is a bit on the iffy side but as it was not leaking oil leave it there.

Not too sure that last photo was actually correct either.
AFAIK the hole for the magneto pinion is either oval or over size to allow the magneto to be shimmed so as to get correct meshing between the drive gear & the idler gear.
To accomodate for this the magneto oil seal is solid rubber so it can contort to the correct position.
I was under the impression that all of the rear magneto cases used the same seal but that will be another look up job.

Now for the $ 60,000 question, what was the thread in the clutch WW or CEI ?


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Sloper timing cover fasteners [Re: BevanC] #751067
10/01/18 5:36 am
10/01/18 5:36 am
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 55
Canterbury, New Zealand
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BevanC Offline OP
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Canterbury, New Zealand
Hi Trevor,
Afraid I can't resolve the $60,000 question for an original Sloper (if there is such a beast) - an M8 bolt screws in smoothly to my Sloper's thrust plate holes, so they've clearly been rethreaded. However, at least I now know what to use to compress the new springs prior to refitting the clutch nut, which was my original query.

Have had to order new springs & the missing friction plate from Cornucopia. Thought briefly that Bantam springs would fit - same length, but the sodding things are 1 mm bigger o.d., so won't fit in the spring cups (not enough metal to mill the cups out a bit either). So I have had to shell out 5 times more for the correct ones, dammit.

Cheers,
Bevan

Re: Sloper timing cover fasteners [Re: BevanC] #751134
10/01/18 8:39 pm
10/01/18 8:39 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
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chaterlea25 Offline
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Cork Ireland
Hi Bevan, Trevor,
The 20's B series wedge and round tanks have a steel "top hat" sleeve attached to the inner timing case and a pinion with a scroll on it
to pull the oil back in (hopefully)
The piece is held in place with 3 small screws that need to be rivited over, having them fall out causes a lot of damage
I had to repair one a long time ago that this happened to,
A good thing is that BSA kept the same tooth count and gear sizes all the way through to the end of the pre units
so a shortened B31 timing pinion has since served well

I have ground / broken out damaged threaded case holes and had them built up with weld before fettling and re tapping to 1/4 x 20

On occasion tapping to M7 can be a fix on a damaged 1/4 x 26 thread when tapping for a helecoil would take out too much material !!!!!

John


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