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Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? #750211
09/23/18 9:21 pm
09/23/18 9:21 pm
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Oztralia
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Anyone been to the former Norton Villiers factory in Andover, circa 1969 to 1973. ?

The address in my factory manual is North Way, Walworth, Andover.
No street number, note.

Looking on google earth, there are a number of possible candidates,
in a Z shaped street with an offshoot (also named North Way !

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2193578,-1.4566523,683m/data=!3m1!1e3

Only clue I can find is the interior view of Andover - after the sit-in and shutdown ?
Big shed, that must narrow the field...

https://andover-norton.co.uk/img/imagescaler/25/25effc4f96ce034d7a1e090040f9bd09.jpg

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Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750219
09/23/18 10:08 pm
09/23/18 10:08 pm
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Norfolk, UK
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Originally Posted by Rohan
Only clue I can find is the interior view of Andover - after the sit-in and shutdown ?
Big shed, that must narrow the field...

https://andover-norton.co.uk/img/imagescaler/25/25effc4f96ce034d7a1e090040f9bd09.jpg


Andover Sit-in? Shut down? facepalm

It's a photo of the production line being set up at Andover in 1969.

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750220
09/23/18 10:19 pm
09/23/18 10:19 pm
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Oztralia
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Why/how are they starting bike assembly with no stock of anything much (in sight, anyway) ?
Wasn't the assembly line at Andover moved to Wolverhampton after the staff at Andover were given redundancy notices.

Any insights into the address or actual premises ?

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750223
09/23/18 10:31 pm
09/23/18 10:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Rohan
Why/how are they starting bike assembly with no stock of anything much (in sight, anyway) ?


For once, why don't you read what I posted? ".....production line being set up......"


Originally Posted by Rohan
Wasn't the assembly line at Andover moved to Wolverhampton after the staff at Andover were given redundancy notices.


What has that got to do with production moving to Andover from Plumstead in 1969?

Originally Posted by Rohan
Any insights into the address or actual premises ?


I have a reasonably good idea.

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750350
09/24/18 10:07 pm
09/24/18 10:07 pm
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It all looks a bit industrial out there, I'm not surprised they'd want to not admit to it.
Was it newly built (or purpose built for them even) when they moved into it, anyone know ?

The former Villiers factory in Wolverhampton looks big enough for when it became Norton Villiers,
its interesting they chose to set up ~half of Commando assembly out at Andover.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5739007,-2.1321613,332m/data=!3m1!1e3

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750397
09/25/18 8:47 am
09/25/18 8:47 am
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Originally Posted by Rohan
It all looks a bit industrial out there,....


What else would you expect an industrial estate to look like? laughing (no, don't bother answering that)

Originally Posted by Rohan
....I'm not surprised they'd want to not admit to it.


crazy

What?????











Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750469
09/25/18 9:21 pm
09/25/18 9:21 pm
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Yes, but WHY did they go there ?
Its always the WHY WHY WHY thats the interesting bit.
The old Villiers factory seems like a very large space

We know there was some sort of subsidy involved.
Post something constructive....

I have a line on someone who may actually be able to assist,
rather then your constant blocking

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750473
09/25/18 11:03 pm
09/25/18 11:03 pm
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Originally Posted by Rohan
Yes, but WHY did they go there ?

The old Villiers factory seems like a very large space
We know there was some sort of subsidy involved.


The fact that they received a government subsidy to move from Plumstead Rd. is well known and which they almost certainly would not have got, (or not as much) had they moved straight from Plumstead to the NV factory in Wolverhampton, so why ask when you already appear to know the answer?


Originally Posted by Rohan
Post something constructive....


If you don't ask nonsensical questions and make daft statements (your previous post being another prime example) then it's far more likely you'd receive "constructive" answers!

For instance,
"I'm not surprised they'd want to not admit to it." which I think you actually mean "I'm not surprised they'd not want to admit to it"

Who are "they"? NV?
And, "not want to admit to"...what, exactly?



Originally Posted by Rohan
I have a line on someone who may actually be able to assist,
rather then your constant blocking


It isn't "blocking" as you well know but if you want better replies then I suggest you stop posting the usual Rohan gibberish.


Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: L.A.B.] #750485
09/26/18 12:54 am
09/26/18 12:54 am
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Thanks to both of you for making me look this up....I knew these posts sounded strangely familiar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_XS2Pg71bU&list=PLingvdtU8lIUpVzYHXgUPvO9wAEQIlDSc

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750501
09/26/18 3:28 am
09/26/18 3:28 am
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Ha ha.
I'm not so sure that me asking lots of interesting questions and LAB giving nothing but obnoxious retorts quite falls into that category though. ?
As a 'moderator', this behaviour leaves a bit to be desired.
And we NEVER see him post any new interesting snippets or details, its always just no no no no no to existing questions.

As for 'government subsidies', those are a mere two words, a shade more detail would be welcome. !!!
You always seem to hint you have ALL the answers, but we never see more than a sentence or 2 strung together.
What were the subsidies for ?
What did they have to do to earn them ?
How much were they for ?
Were there tax credits, free electricity, payroll tax relief, transport subsidies, free land, free road access provided,
or ?, or ? or ?, ....
???

The average account of history for Nortons barely scratches the surface, surely someone literate has studied/reported this stuff.
My local butchers shop had a better more detailed account of how they came to be, and as they are now...

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750504
09/26/18 3:44 am
09/26/18 3:44 am
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if you can, i'd like the name of the norton engineer who designed the commando air box, so i can hate him personally.


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750509
09/26/18 4:24 am
09/26/18 4:24 am
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!! Ditto who placed the horn in such an unreachable spot.

My fathers comment on something british he was working on was something along the lines of "it looks more like this was all just thrown in there, and they did the design after."




Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750512
09/26/18 7:08 am
09/26/18 7:08 am
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Someone has suggested that someone is not fully recognising/realizing when I am posing a question. Or a series of questions.
(which is almost everything, btw, as far an Norton history is concerned !)

At first I thought this was silly, but then the old grey cells stirred into action.
I recall Les saying that if there is no question mark, then its not a question.

Hmmm.
Hmm indeed.
This could explain a lot..... ?

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750517
09/26/18 8:45 am
09/26/18 8:45 am
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kommando Offline
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Not sure on the soap, but not got 20 mins to see it all.

The thread fits this better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s35rVw1zskA

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750521
09/26/18 10:20 am
09/26/18 10:20 am
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Originally Posted by Rohan
I'm not so sure that me asking lots of interesting questions and LAB giving nothing but obnoxious retorts quite falls into that category though. ?


Well, I'm ready and waiting for when you begin asking "lots of interesting questions".


Originally Posted by Rohan
As a 'moderator', this behaviour leaves a bit to be desired.


I'm not a moderator here (for which I suppose you should be thankful) so it's irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Rohan
And we NEVER see him post any new interesting snippets or details,


Yes, so?


Originally Posted by Rohan
its always just no no no no no to existing questions.


Ridiculing the nonsense you often post you mean! I see you've side-stepped "I'm not surprised they'd want to not admit to it." gibberish. When I attempt to find out what the **** you're going on about I don't get an answer.

Originally Posted by Rohan
As for 'government subsidies', those are a mere two words, a shade more detail would be welcome. !!!
You always seem to hint you have ALL the answers, but we never see more than a sentence or 2 strung together.


That's mainly because you don't ask the right questions.


Originally Posted by Rohan
What were the subsidies for ?


For moving out of the Plumstead Rd. factory as the site and surrounding area had been earmarked for redevelopment by the GLC.

Originally Posted by Rohan
What did they have to do to earn them ?


Move to a designated London overspill town. In this case Andover.

Originally Posted by Rohan
How much were they for ?
Were there tax credits, free electricity, payroll tax relief, transport subsidies, free land, free road access provided,
or ?, or ? or ?, ....
???


No idea, and any such details were probably not made public.

Free electricity? Unlikely.
Free land? Well, the Andover plots were on an industrial estate so it's not likely to have ever been their land although there may have been a cheap deal on 'rent and rates' at least for a certain period of time.
Free road access? The 'factory' was on an industrial estate so I don't know what you mean.


Originally Posted by Rohan
The average account of history for Nortons barely scratches the surface, surely someone literate has studied/reported this stuff.
My local butchers shop had a better more detailed account of how they came to be, and as they are now...

Someone has suggested that someone is not fully recognising/realizing when I am posing a question. Or a series of questions.
(which is almost everything, btw, as far an Norton history is concerned !)

At first I thought this was silly, but then the old grey cells stirred into action.
I recall Les saying that if there is no question mark, then its not a question.


Oh dear, and now you've relapsed into your usual silliness once again.
facepalm





Last edited by L.A.B.; 09/26/18 1:46 pm.
Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: L.A.B.] #750523
09/26/18 11:06 am
09/26/18 11:06 am
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It's all obvious now ! If Norton's managerial processes and manufacturing disarray caused this much consternation amongst loyal afficionados, no wonder their twins never achieved the sales and race successes of Triumph !
( now, if this doesn't cause this pair of silly buggers to close ranks, nothing will...he,he, he ! But been bloody interesting, though !)
Seriously, though, when AMC wanted to move from Plumstead to Sheerness,on the Isle of Sheppey, most of their skilled workforce didn't want to, despite inducement of provided housing ! I believe that in the fragmentation that followed, trying to get production viable was of more concern than keeping records, and now much detail will be lost in the mists of time !
Unfortunately ! Anecdotal accounts have their place, but they are anecdotal and be heeded as such !

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Triless] #750529
09/26/18 11:57 am
09/26/18 11:57 am
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Originally Posted by Triless
It's all obvious now ! If Norton's managerial processes and manufacturing disarray caused this much consternation amongst loyal afficionados, no wonder their twins never achieved the sales and race successes of Triumph !
( now, if this doesn't cause this pair of silly buggers to close ranks, nothing will...he,he, he !


Yes, but I'm also a Triumph owner. smile

For those who may not have heard of London overspill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_overspill







Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: L.A.B.] #750579
09/26/18 5:59 pm
09/26/18 5:59 pm
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Oh, bugga ! That wasn't supposed to happen !

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: kommando] #750617
09/26/18 9:39 pm
09/26/18 9:39 pm
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Originally Posted by kommando
Not sure on the soap, but not got 20 mins to see it all.


Me neither, but the first 10 seconds was enough to get the picture....

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: L.A.B.] #750620
09/26/18 10:06 pm
09/26/18 10:06 pm
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Originally Posted by L.A.B.
For those who may not have heard of London overspill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_overspill


Do you know, (I think) thats the first germ of new information that has been offered in this whole series of threads.
Thanks ! (is that the 1st time I can say that ?)
The level of detail in that link leaves a little to be desired, but thats bye-the-way.

Originally Posted by L.A.B.

No idea, and any such details were probably not made public.

Someone must have researched/accessed some detail somewhere, thats public money being spent,
and bureaucracies revel in record keeping. Be interesting to know, or even where to start looking.


Originally Posted by L.A.B.

That's mainly because you don't ask the right questions.


What questions should I be asking then ???

Something you actually have the answers to ?!
Or I can find the answers to in somewhat skimpy accounts of Nortons history.
As I said above, my local butchers has a better history of themselves - photos and details of all their shops, their owners, their employees etc etc.
Obviously the meat is only a byline, but they go back a fair way, and they detail the villages around them, and their stories. Quite a social history
That would obviously be a massive task for a high profile Co like Nortons, but its surprising it wasn't done by the Co themselves at some stage. ?
One thing is for sure, folks won't be starved of detail for Mr Garners era, the volume of detail out there is amazing. It is in the digital age of course.

Originally Posted by L.A.B.
.I'm not a moderator here (for which I suppose you should be thankful) so it's irrelevant.


Yes, we've already seen you like to stifle rather than discuss.
If only we could get more than 1 or 2 line retorts out of you, we keep getting hints that you may actually know something of which we seek answers to.
Now, about that street address in North Way....


Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750675
09/27/18 7:38 am
09/27/18 7:38 am
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kommando Offline
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The UK Post Office will take a company name and a street name as an address, no need for a number. No number in my address, not even a street name, just a house name and the nearest village which is 3 miles away.

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750683
09/27/18 8:58 am
09/27/18 8:58 am
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I'm well aware of that.

But that street has street numbers, and the factory is no longer there (ie labelled as Andover Norton),
so without a visual identification of that particular building, or even a photo of it,
what should have been a simple question has become a complete saga !!!

[[[ *Those words and Nortons seem to go together, if anyone can explain that there is a Ph.D. in it ]]] ?

btw, Norton at Bracebridge St doesn't have a street number either (I think, I haven't really checked).
But the building shape and old photos makes it really obvious which one it is.
There used to be a blue plaque there too, but it was taken away for 'safekeeping'

btw2, i did stints of delivery driving as part of my duties.
Buildings without numbers were sometimes the bane of my life - esp when you get directions like "go down to where
the old rubber factory was, turn left where the old bridge was and drive until you get to where the old cement factory was.
And I kid you not....! I found it, but not from those instructions....

Cheers.

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750685
09/27/18 9:05 am
09/27/18 9:05 am
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I suspect this may be it, but without any confirmatiom from any source this is based purely on the size of the main shed.


https://www.google.com/maps/@51.219...KJ8SyELamU0WkDxntDiRQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

What we don't know though is whether any other (attached ?) warehouses were involved, say for stock storage or assembled bike storage.
In full production, these could well have required more space than the main bike assembly area ?
Depending on what was transported over from Wolverhampton, how frequently this was required, and how much sub assembly was done & where.

Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750705
09/27/18 1:49 pm
09/27/18 1:49 pm
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Originally Posted by Rohan
Originally Posted by L.A.B.
For those who may not have heard of London overspill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_overspill


Do you know, (I think) thats the first germ of new information that has been offered in this whole series of threads.
Thanks ! (is that the 1st time I can say that ?)
The level of detail in that link leaves a little to be desired, but thats bye-the-way.


There's more on the Internet about the London overspill if you look for it if that's the "new information" you are referring to?
The reason for the move to Andover is mentioned in Norton/Norton Commando history books so I don't think that information is "new". Those books most likely written with a UK readership in mind who'd be familiar with the London overspill.


Originally Posted by Rohan
Originally Posted by L.A.B.

No idea, and any such details were probably not made public.

Someone must have researched/accessed some detail somewhere, thats public money being spent,
and bureaucracies revel in record keeping. Be interesting to know, or even where to start looking.

Something you actually have the answers to ?!
Or I can find the answers to in somewhat skimpy accounts of Nortons history.




The National Archives would probably be the place to start searching for any surviving records. Those at Andover Norton might also know some of the financial history from that period.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Originally Posted by Rohan
Originally Posted by L.A.B.

That's mainly because you don't ask the right questions.


What questions should I be asking then ???


I can't tell you what to ask, maybe just put a little more thought into it.



Originally Posted by Rohan
As I said above, my local butchers has a better history of themselves - photos and details of all their shops, their owners, their employees etc etc.
Obviously the meat is only a byline, but they go back a fair way, and they detail the villages around them, and their stories. Quite a social history


"butchers shop...where "the meat is only a byline." crazy No, I'm saying nothing.



Originally Posted by Rohan
That would obviously be a massive task for a high profile Co like Nortons, but its surprising it wasn't done by the Co themselves at some stage. ?


Which "Nortons" do you mean? Norton Motorcycles? Andover Norton? Norton Motors? Or are you referring to NV/NVT? This is an example of what I mean about asking the right question in a way that can be answered.



Originally Posted by Rohan
Originally Posted by L.A.B.
.I'm not a moderator here (for which I suppose you should be thankful) so it's irrelevant.


Yes, we've already seen you like to stifle rather than discuss.



That's basically down to you!
(There's that "we"(ve) again) laughing

Originally Posted by Rohan
If only we could get more than 1 or 2 line retorts out of you, we keep getting hints that you may actually know something of which we seek answers to.


Have you even once considered that perhaps just PERHAPS it's how you come across over the Internet that might be responsible for the tone of the replies you receive? (No, of course, you haven't, why am I even asking as you probably don't even know what I mean, sadly)


Originally Posted by Rohan
Now, about that street address in North Way....


There are photos of the factory exterior (in various 'Norton' books and other publications) and a few minutes on the Internet identifies it (them) as plots/units 14 & 15 North Way.

(The 'Musgrave' Booker Londis warehouse is 18 & 19)

Last edited by L.A.B.; 09/27/18 3:40 pm.
Re: Norton Villiers factory in Andover address? [Re: Rohan] #750726
09/27/18 5:11 pm
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From ; A BRIEF HISTORY OF ANDOVER, HAMPSHIRE

https://hampshire.spydus.co.uk/cgi-bin/spydus.exe/MSGTRN/OPAC/HOME

... " In 1960 Andover was still a small town of about 17,000 people. However in that year it was decided that Andover should become an overspill town for London. In 1961 a plan was drawn up to greatly expand Andover. It was planned that the population should rise to 47,000 by 1982 and about 9,000 new houses would be built. About 20,000 of the extra population, it was decided, would be 'immigrants' from London.

The first new council houses in Andover were built in Floral Way and were ready by 1964. By 1968 4,000 'immigrants' had arrived from London. By 1968 the council had built over 1,000 houses and 5 new schools. Council houses were built north of the town at Cricketers Way, River Way and Admiral Way. About 500 new private houses were built in Andover by 1968. By 1981 the population of Andover had risen to 51,000.

A new spine road was built in 1965 and Andover bypass opened in 1969. However the railway from Andover to Southampton closed in 1964.

In the late 1960s Andover town centre was redeveloped and some industries there were relocated to the edge of the town. A new shopping centre, The Chantry Centre was built in the late 1960s. It was extended in 1989.

The council also tried to diversify industry in Andover. In the 1960s Walworth industrial estate was built. The first factory there began operating in November 1964. Another industrial estate, Portway was also built. By 1969 24 new factories had been built in Andover. In 1966 Twinings the tea and coffee firm moved to the town. Another industry in Andover was engineering..."





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