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Tire install tips and tricks #747936
09/05/18 12:01 am
09/05/18 12:01 am
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
DamienE Offline OP
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DamienE  Offline OP
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Palm Bay, Fl.
Have a 70 Thunderbolt that I've been working on to get back on the road. Finally got around to the tires. Called a trusted shop and they priced themselves out of the work (I think intentionally as they deal mainly with Harley and metric sport bikes... balked when I said it was a BSA) so I figured I would have a go at switching the tires/tubes/rim locks/wheel strips/balancing myself.

I was pretty easily able to get the old tires off and I don't foresee any issues getting the new tires on but I'm concerned with pinching the new tubes in the process.

Any advice on procedure or technique to avoiding pinching the tubes? I'll be using legitimate tire irons so hopefully this alone will help mitigate the risk vs using a screw driver or something. Also, I would appreciate any tips on installing the rim locks as well as balancing. I got the spoke weights that are brass and tighten onto the spoke base with a hex screw.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #747947
09/05/18 1:58 am
09/05/18 1:58 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,018
Nor. California
D
Deadstiffcatt Offline
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Nor. California
First of all, test your tubes with a bit of air in them in a tub of water, enough to make them round but not ballooning. I have had brand new tubes leak from the box! Dry thoroughly, then slightly deflate them. I leave some air in to keep the basic round shape, this helps me to keep from folding the tube on itself or under a tire bead. Before I mount one side of the tire in the rim, I take and lightly coat the inside of tire with talc or baby powder, this helps to prevent the tube from binding on the tire. Make sure that the balance dot on the tire is lined up with the valve stem hole- call who you bought the tire from to confirm which dot it is on the tire. I then install the tube; fighting like heck to get the valve stem through the appropriate rim hole while maneuvering my hand at ungodly angles to do so. Once just enough of the stem is through the hole, I put the lock nut on just a few turns. Cigarette time. Next, I will try to get as much of the tire on the rim by hand, using no tools until I have to. (Original size Dunlops could almost be completely installed by hand, modern metrics are a much tighter fit it seems.) If using rim locks, you will have to push them up into the tire some to get the tire around them. A trick that I try and use is to let a little more air out at this point, and push the bead that is already on into the lower center channel of the rim. Sometimes a little tire lube on the tire bead helps at this point too.Tire tool time- gently work your way an inch at a time using two tire irons, get an inch done and move that iron over past the other iron and repeat. Main things to remember are using as little depth when inserting the tire iron as you need, and no rushing. Just go slow and easy, and gradually work the tire onto the rim. Try not to cram the tire iron so deep that it can gouge or grab the tube, and just kiss a little of the tire on at a time. Once done, I like to use tire lube all the way around on both beads to help ease the expansion of the tire to fit the rim when adding air. There's a line that follows the bead where it meets the sidewall, this needs to be out of the rim all the way around- that's where the tire lube really helps me. I will normally fill to about 40 or 45 pounds pressure, put the cap on, and see what the pressure is the next day- preferably before I mount the wheel to the bike. If all is, good, then I drop pressure to correct for riding.

For home balancing, I leave brake shoes and plate off- they'll probably want to bind. I shove one end of my axle in a vise, then use a piece of two by four to wedge it level between the floor and the other side of the axle. Then it's an hour of spinning, adding a weight, moving a weight, moving an added weight, until you get it to stop on it's own at random points. If it keeps stopping at the same point- that's the heavy point and needs more weight opposite, or less weight if there is a weight already there. I'd prefer to have a shop do my balancing- it is much easier and more accurate- but at 25 miles away I get what I can take in my own shop. If taking to a shop for balancing, though, see if they need you to have the axle removed to mount in their machine before you get there- cheaper and less hassle if you have to pull the axle. If you have an old 60's tire shop in town, they may be more useful than a modern bike shop on balancing.

Last edited by Deadstiffcatt; 09/05/18 2:17 am.
Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #747948
09/05/18 2:35 am
09/05/18 2:35 am
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 533
NY
OriginalScott Offline
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Posts: 533
NY
Balancing with a rim lock takes a lot of weight. I ended up using 5-1oz. weights opposite the rim lock. I use 3 tire irons instead of 2. That way when you pull the middle one you still have quite a bit of leverage to keep the tire from wanting to pop back off. Always pull the middle one and work your way around the tire in small increments. Motion Pro makes really nice ones for motorcycle wheels that have a small lip to keep from pinching the tube. Here's my wheels weights:

[Linked Image]

Scott

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: Deadstiffcatt] #747950
09/05/18 3:00 am
09/05/18 3:00 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,012
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Well'ard Rocker
Lannis  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 13,012
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Deadstiffcatt
First of all, test your tubes with a bit of air in them in a tub of water, enough to make them round but not ballooning. I have had brand new tubes leak from the box! Dry thoroughly, then slightly deflate them. I leave some air in to keep the basic round shape, this helps me to keep from folding the tube on itself or under a tire bead. Before I mount one side of the tire in the rim, I take and lightly coat the inside of tire with talc or baby powder, this helps to prevent the tube from binding on the tire. Make sure that the balance dot on the tire is lined up with the valve stem hole- call who you bought the tire from to confirm which dot it is on the tire. I then install the tube; fighting like heck to get the valve stem through the appropriate rim hole while maneuvering my hand at ungodly angles to do so.....



No need in doing all that. Aerostich and others sell a little tool made just for this job, which allows you to pull the valve stem through the rim with no trouble at all.

Originally Posted by Deadstiffcatt


Once just enough of the stem is through the hole, I put the lock nut on just a few turns. Cigarette time. Next, I will try to get as much of the tire on the rim by hand, using no tools until I have to. (Original size Dunlops could almost be completely installed by hand, modern metrics are a much tighter fit it seems.) If using rim locks, you will have to push them up into the tire some to get the tire around them. A trick that I try and use is to let a little more air out at this point, and push the bead that is already on into the lower center channel of the rim. Sometimes a little tire lube on the tire bead helps at this point too.



Why not a LOT of tire lube? No need in being chintzy with it. If it's real tire lube like P80 or RuGlyde, it won't hurt anything, rust your rim or whatever. Makes it a LOT easier.

With the addition of that and maybe warming the tire up in the sun before installing, this is a really good tire change description ......

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #747961
09/05/18 8:50 am
09/05/18 8:50 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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S

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
Hi Damien,

Originally Posted by DamienE
installing the rim locks

Fit the rim lock between the rim and the tape. Put a nut just on the end of the lock stud.

As you get the tyre bead close to a rim lock, push on the end of the lock stud to get the lock away from the rim - the partially-inflated tube, the rim tape and the nut on the stud will stop the lock dropping into the tyre, the partially-inflated tube and the rim tape will push the lock back against the tyre bead when you let go of the stud. thumbsup.

When the tyre is fully-fitted, inflate the tube and seat the bead in the rim as normal. Only when you're satisfied the tyre is seated, tighten the lock securing nuts; btw, you don't have to go mad hauling away on the lock nuts, the locks have a lot of clamping force with just sensible tightening.

Btw, risking telling you something you know already, don't secure the valve to the rim with a locknut. With rim locks, it's unlikely the tyre will move relative to the rim but, if it ever does, first thing you'll see is the valve 'leaning over', not pointing at the centre of the wheel. Otoh, if you secure the valve with a locknut, first you'll know about a problem is when the valve rips out of the tube ... facepalm

Originally Posted by OriginalScott
Balancing with a rim lock takes a lot of weight. I ended up using 5-1oz. weights opposite the rim lock.

Mmmm ... that's why you use two locks, opposite one another on the rim ... wink

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: Stuart] #747962
09/05/18 9:26 am
09/05/18 9:26 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,774
OZ
Triless Online content
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Triless  Online Content
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Posts: 1,774
OZ
Something I was told years ago, if a rim lock is fitted, align the tyre balance spot here, if two rim locks are fitted, place tyre balance spot between them. Obviously, no rim locks, balance spot goes at tube valve stem.

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #747982
09/05/18 1:06 pm
09/05/18 1:06 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
DamienE Offline OP
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DamienE  Offline OP
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Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
Thank you for all the great tips! I'll be receiving my supplies soon and will report back with how it goes!

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: Triless] #748041
09/05/18 10:57 pm
09/05/18 10:57 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
DamienE Offline OP
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DamienE  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
Originally Posted by Triless
Something I was told years ago, if a rim lock is fitted, align the tyre balance spot here, if two rim locks are fitted, place tyre balance spot between them. Obviously, no rim locks, balance spot goes at tube valve stem.


Avon RoadRider tires so no balance marks frown

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748153
09/06/18 6:49 pm
09/06/18 6:49 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,082
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Posts: 5,082
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
partially inflate the tube, fit inside the tyre and soap the hell out of the tube, if its slippy enough will some air in there is little chance of pinching it.


beerchug
Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748189
09/06/18 11:47 pm
09/06/18 11:47 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,237
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,237
Boston, Massachusetts
For years I have had good luck using baby powder. Is even better now since you can buy it without any of that baby smell.
thumbsup For partial inflation. thumbsup

thumbsup For getting the opposite bead to the side you are trying to get over the rim into the drop center of the rim. The deeper you can push it in so it is laying on the center of the rim strap the easier it will be to get the bead over the rim.


Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748194
09/07/18 12:21 am
09/07/18 12:21 am
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
DamienE Offline OP
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DamienE  Offline OP
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Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
Thanks for more tips! Received the rim strip and rear tube today. Just need the rim locks and I can take a stab at the back tire.

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748217
09/07/18 7:35 am
09/07/18 7:35 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,877
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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Posts: 3,877
Sydney Australia
OK.
Always willing to learn
Rim locks over the rim tape which is how I have always fited them
or
rim locks under the rim tape ?


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: BSA_WM20] #748223
09/07/18 7:57 am
09/07/18 7:57 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,774
OZ
Triless Online content
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Triless  Online Content
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OZ
I've always fitted them under the rim tape. A tip passed on years ago !

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748237
09/07/18 11:04 am
09/07/18 11:04 am
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,290
Bolton Lancs UK
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Andy Higham Offline
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Bolton Lancs UK
The best piece of advice I can give is to take the wheel and tyre to a proffessional.
A proper tyre changing machine means less chance of a damaged rim (especially important on alloy rims), no damage to the tyre bead, no nipped tube etc. A tyre fitter will charge less than the cost of replacing a nipped tube


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Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748372
09/08/18 4:28 pm
09/08/18 4:28 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
DamienE Offline OP
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DamienE  Offline OP
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Palm Bay, Fl.
Front wheel is on and balanced! beerchug

Having trouble figuring out the rear. If I put the rim locks on before the tire, I can't get the tire on. The rim lock are in the way. I I put half the tire on first, I can't get the rim locks under the rim tape. Any advice?

Last edited by DamienE; 09/08/18 4:29 pm. Reason: Typos
Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748375
09/08/18 4:54 pm
09/08/18 4:54 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
DamienE Offline OP
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Palm Bay, Fl.
Figured it out. Get one side of the tire on, coat inside with baby powder. Spoon the side you just put on out like you would want to take it back off, but then flip the tire and set it on the spoon holding it in place. Then put two handles or whatever spanning 8-10" over the hole for the lock on the opposite side. More than enough room to get it there and place the rim lock under the rim tape.

I used the same method for valve stem and positioning the tube. Have About 8" of bead to pop on left. No pinching yet, and have the parts around both locks over. This is where it gets tricky! Wish me luck!

Last edited by DamienE; 09/08/18 4:58 pm.
Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748421
09/08/18 10:51 pm
09/08/18 10:51 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
DamienE Offline OP
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Palm Bay, Fl.
The importance of lots of lube on the tire edge cannot be overstated. The bead loves to get caught on the inner channel edge and create a low spot in the bead.

Also took more weight than I thought it would to balance out the weight of the rim locks.

All in all, it wasn't so bad. Mission accomplished! Thanks again everyone for the tips!

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748436
09/09/18 1:13 am
09/09/18 1:13 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,018
Nor. California
D
Deadstiffcatt Offline
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Nor. California
Hope you stopped at the right point and had a cigarette. This is a key function in any motorcycle repair.

Feed a man a fish, you've fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you've fed him for life. Congratulations on a job well done!

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #748506
09/09/18 3:45 pm
09/09/18 3:45 pm
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 41
Palm Bay, Fl.
DamienE Offline OP
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Thank you sir! No smokes for me, but I did stop for a beer and a cool off in the AC half way through. Summer is at an end, but it is still brutally hot here. Thanks again for all of your help!

Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #749451
09/17/18 3:45 am
09/17/18 3:45 am
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 434
australia
T
tiger_cub Offline
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australia
Some great tips here! I have done many tyres myself since the early 70s but I must have missed something along the way as I have never heard of a balance dot before....


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Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #749494
09/17/18 2:24 pm
09/17/18 2:24 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,082
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Car tyres usually have 2 dots, a red and a yellow, the red from memory is actually the heaviest point on the tyre, the yellow was the widest point of the tyre.

However I've only ever used the yellow dot near the valve when available, in most cases ive never had to rebalance. the road riders don't have a dot and still they aren't balanced.... Probably aught to be, but until now have never given me cause to notice an issue.... But I also dont use rim locks.....


beerchug
Re: Tire install tips and tricks [Re: DamienE] #749534
09/17/18 6:01 pm
09/17/18 6:01 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,191
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
On the subject of wheel balance, we often expect the valve side of the wheel to be heaviest, this isnt the case, the way the rim is constructed at 180 to the valve hole there is additional weight , the rim ends are usually located with thin steel dowels to align before welding, the weight of the valve is often less than the join weight.

I never used to bother balancing the back wheel, one day I was messing around with an old pushbike, pedalling it up on the stand in top gear I was alarmed when a 6 inch hop developed at the back end, shaking the whole thing violently, the wheel was true, so I spent a few minutes with solder and balanced it, pedalled up to speed , no hop. Road speed for this would have been around 30 - 40mph. I balance my rear wheels as well now.


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