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Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #747473
08/31/18 10:27 pm
08/31/18 10:27 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,180
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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argyll. scotland, uk
"and how these components are subsequently QA tested and delivered back to Wassell and then their customers."
At best Wassels look at it and say, yeh that'll do. Wassels have no idea about quality control, its cheap, sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesnt.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
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MZ TS 250
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Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #747479
08/31/18 11:10 pm
08/31/18 11:10 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,081
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NickL Offline OP
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I think we're all jumping the gun here, if the actual manufacturer is a half decent well equipped factory, the product should be good.
As you say, JCC, Hastings and Vape are good manufacturers and supply a good product, Wassel only act as a post box, i've seen
good stuff and bad from their contracted suppliers, i'll reserve judgement until i see one.

As far as 'daring to try one' if i did buy one i would examine it and test it before fitting anyway, same as with anything like that.
Interesting that Gavin had trouble with the AMAL carbs, that same bike (with the SRM pump) had problems with the new Amals.
The float levels were miles too high, they were brand new as well. Not just Wassel's quality control that's lacking eh?

Last edited by NickL; 09/01/18 12:45 am.

No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #747481
08/31/18 11:24 pm
08/31/18 11:24 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,210
Lancaster, California
C.B.S Offline

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Posts: 1,210
Lancaster, California
Based off what I see in regards to Hepolite oil pumps, I see a very high quality part. If I had an A65 engine that I was building I would put a new Hepolite oil pump in but that's my personal opinion.

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #747651
09/02/18 3:51 pm
09/02/18 3:51 pm
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 258
Monclova
S
sloppyoil Offline
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Monclova
cant wait to see one

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: C.B.S] #747663
09/02/18 6:24 pm
09/02/18 6:24 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,076
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Originally Posted by C.B.S
Based off what I see in regards to Hepolite oil pumps, I see a very high quality part. If I had an A65 engine that I was building I would put a new Hepolite oil pump in but that's my personal opinion.


Have you had one in your hands?


beerchug
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #747800
09/03/18 7:53 pm
09/03/18 7:53 pm
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 211
England
F
ferretjuggler Offline
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England
I was delighted to spot the Hepolite pumps on sale, even if my wallet wasn't keen on parting with £300+
What a pity that they come from a source with a questionable quality record.

Noting that the retail price isn't any cheaper than the tarted up SRM unit, wouldn't it be possible for someone with a good quality control regime to produce a good iron body pump for the same sort of money ?

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: Allan Gill] #747885
09/04/18 3:01 pm
09/04/18 3:01 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,210
Lancaster, California
C.B.S Offline

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Lancaster, California
Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Originally Posted by C.B.S
Based off what I see in regards to Hepolite oil pumps, I see a very high quality part. If I had an A65 engine that I was building I would put a new Hepolite oil pump in but that's my personal opinion.


Have you had one in your hands?



I stated I have one... and took photos


Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: ferretjuggler] #747980
09/05/18 1:00 pm
09/05/18 1:00 pm
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 102
UK
T
TripleTown Offline
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Posts: 102
UK
Originally Posted by ferretjuggler
Noting that the retail price isn't any cheaper than the tarted up SRM unit, wouldn't it be possible for someone with a good quality control regime to produce a good iron body pump for the same sort of money ?


Like who? Who else is actually investing hard cash into the industry these days, and prepared to put stock on the shelf? You can't buy a pump from SRM today, because they don't have any. Same applies to buying a 930 Premier from AMAL, or a new Chrome Rim from Central Wheel....it's just the way it is, unfortunately!

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: TripleTown] #747992
09/05/18 3:23 pm
09/05/18 3:23 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 254
Duesseldorf/Germany
Phil in Germany Offline
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Duesseldorf/Germany
Understood, IME the always changing demand for and the limited numbers of sales has brought companies like SRM or Burlen to a point where they produce parts in batches that will have to be sold off prior to the new batch to be produced. That's fair enough from point of view as stock on the shelf is expensive.
This is more straightforward for BSA unit twin pumps. Btw. SRM state on their homepage that a new batch is on its way and should be available in September.
I do not fully understand Burlen's policy as the Premier carbs are suitable for more bikes than just BSA twins. IMHO they opened up a market for Wassell with their AMAL clones due to the fact that some people were fed up by waiting for the AMAL carb to be available/produced by Burlen. I once waited 4 months for a set of 930 Concentrics. At that time Wassell Evolution carbs more or less equivalent to Premiers were readily available at various dealers. Due to my own experience with their carb-related products I'll stay away from them for sure. But an awful lot of people are hesitating less also taking the significantly lower price into account.

FWIW

Cheers!

Ph.



Best regards
Phil
Duesseldorf/Germany
'62 A 65 Star (disassembled)
'69 A 65 Lightning
'71 A 65 Firebird
'75 T 160
'84 Yamaha SR 500
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: TripleTown] #748000
09/05/18 4:35 pm
09/05/18 4:35 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,076
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Originally Posted by C.B.S
Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Originally Posted by C.B.S
Based off what I see in regards to Hepolite oil pumps, I see a very high quality part. If I had an A65 engine that I was building I would put a new Hepolite oil pump in but that's my personal opinion.


Have you had one in your hands?



I stated I have one... and took photos



Sorry didn't depict that from what you wrote, assumed you had seen other sellers web links... As you have one, who else would be better to fit one to their bike and give a road test performance....


Originally Posted by TripleTown
Originally Posted by ferretjuggler
Noting that the retail price isn't any cheaper than the tarted up SRM unit, wouldn't it be possible for someone with a good quality control regime to produce a good iron body pump for the same sort of money ?


Like who? Who else is actually investing hard cash into the industry these days, and prepared to put stock on the shelf? You can't buy a pump from SRM today, because they don't have any. Same applies to buying a 930 Premier from AMAL, or a new Chrome Rim from Central Wheel....it's just the way it is, unfortunately!



Noted also as fettetjuggler, with VAT the SRM pump is around £350 GBP, however this does include a gasket (which actually fits without blinding any holes - thanks to DoubleDiamond there) tab washer and new worm drive, I'm told they supply the worm drive as like all gears they should be replaced in pairs... Taking that into account the price is probably identical to the Wassal version for the pump alone. I'd have thought Wassel would have entered with a lower - more competitive price to capture sales over the SRM unit confused however personally I'll keep my money and give it to SRM for the time being, had plenty good service from the current unit and have another for the racer project already.


beerchug
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #748010
09/05/18 6:38 pm
09/05/18 6:38 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 878
Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Offline
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gunner  Offline
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Farnham, Surrey, UK
Quote
I'd have thought Wassel would have entered with a lower - more competitive price to capture sales over the SRM unit


Totally agree with that Allen, the SRM is a proven unit whereas the Wassel is something of an unknown quality at the moment.

If anyone does buy one, it would be interesting if they could disassemble it, check the tolerances and general build quality etc. This might then help others in deciding which pump to buy.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: Allan Gill] #748031
09/05/18 9:12 pm
09/05/18 9:12 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,210
Lancaster, California
C.B.S Offline

Parts Dealer
C.B.S  Offline

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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,210
Lancaster, California
Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Originally Posted by C.B.S
Originally Posted by Allan Gill
[quote=C.B.S]Based off what I see in regards to Hepolite oil pumps, I see a very high quality part. If I had an A65 engine that I was building I would put a new Hepolite oil pump in but that's my personal opinion.


Have you had one in your hands?



I stated I have one... and took photos



Sorry didn't depict that from what you wrote, assumed you had seen other sellers web links... As you have one, who else would be better to fit one to their bike and give a road test performance....


Nope, those where my links

I'm sure someone building an A50 or A65 would be delighted to try a new oil pump. Cheers

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: gunner] #748036
09/05/18 10:25 pm
09/05/18 10:25 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,081
Aus
N
NickL Offline OP
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NickL  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by gunner
Quote
I'd have thought Wassel would have entered with a lower - more competitive price to capture sales over the SRM unit


Totally agree with that Allen, the SRM is a proven unit whereas the Wassel is something of an unknown quality at the moment.

If anyone does buy one, it would be interesting if they could disassemble it, check the tolerances and general build quality etc. This might then help others in deciding which pump to buy.



If i was coming into the market with a pump made of the correct material for the job, i'd ask the going rate at least for the product.


No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #748104
09/06/18 9:57 am
09/06/18 9:57 am
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 102
UK
T
TripleTown Offline
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TripleTown  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
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UK
Originally Posted by NickL
Originally Posted by gunner
Quote
I'd have thought Wassel would have entered with a lower - more competitive price to capture sales over the SRM unit


Totally agree with that Allen, the SRM is a proven unit whereas the Wassel is something of an unknown quality at the moment.

If anyone does buy one, it would be interesting if they could disassemble it, check the tolerances and general build quality etc. This might then help others in deciding which pump to buy.



If i was coming into the market with a pump made of the correct material for the job, i'd ask the going rate at least for the product.


I'd suggest that the material cost of close grained cast iron, would be far higher than alloy, which is probably why SRM went the alloy route in the first place. That being said, I like the SRM pump.

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #748132
09/06/18 3:34 pm
09/06/18 3:34 pm
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,874
ca, us
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DMadigan Offline
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ca, us
I cannot think (do not take that out of context) of any Japanese motor that uses a cast iron pump body. They are all cast aluminum and mostly with steel gerotors. They have many more pressure fed plain bearings than an A65.
The last time this pump discussion came up I made a higher volume gerotor pump with spur gear drive from stock components which brings the cost down. There was little interest in it.

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: DMadigan] #748151
09/06/18 6:43 pm
09/06/18 6:43 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,076
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Originally Posted by DMadigan
I cannot think (do not take that out of context) of any Japanese motor that uses a cast iron pump body. They are all cast aluminum and mostly with steel gerotors. They have many more pressure fed plain bearings than an A65.
The last time this pump discussion came up I made a higher volume gerotor pump with spur gear drive from stock components which brings the cost down. There was little interest in it.



did you give a price though, i thought the interest was there..


beerchug
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: DMadigan] #748185
09/06/18 11:10 pm
09/06/18 11:10 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,081
Aus
N
NickL Offline OP
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NickL  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by DMadigan
I cannot think (do not take that out of context) of any Japanese motor that uses a cast iron pump body. They are all cast aluminum and mostly with steel gerotors. They have many more pressure fed plain bearings than an A65.
The last time this pump discussion came up I made a higher volume gerotor pump with spur gear drive from stock components which brings the cost down. There was little interest in it.



I accept that later designs are made of ally, but they are not built in the fashion of a beezer gear pump.

As for your gerotor setup........
That's not true David, i offered to actually buy one, never heard any more of it.


No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #748206
09/07/18 3:23 am
09/07/18 3:23 am
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,874
ca, us
D
DMadigan Offline
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ca, us
True Nick, I think you were the only one interested in buying one. I do not have a price for producing them, I only made a test piece. I do not have a running A65 to test one on and I cannot sell them without it.

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: TripleTown] #748214
09/07/18 7:26 am
09/07/18 7:26 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,876
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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B

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Posts: 3,876
Sydney Australia
Quote
I'd suggest that the material cost of close grained cast iron, would be far higher than alloy, which is probably why SRM went the alloy route in the first place. That being said, I like the SRM pump.


Grey cast iron is the cheapest engineering metal on the planet about 1/4 the price of aluminium
The casting method for grey cast iron ( green sand moulding ) is also cheaper than for aluminium.
Grey cast iron also machines much easier ( thus cheaper ) than aluminium.

So the metal is cheaper to buy, the casting is cheaper to do and the machining is cheaper so one could only gues that either they are all made 1 at a time by a 1st class machinist or Wassel are making a massive profit.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: DMadigan] #748216
09/07/18 7:31 am
09/07/18 7:31 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,876
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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Posts: 3,876
Sydney Australia
Quote
The last time this pump discussion came up I made a higher volume gerotor pump with spur gear drive from stock components which brings the cost down. There was little interest in it.


Yep every one want to whinge & bitch about oil pumps till you ask them to open their wallets , then they go crawl off into the corner.
Many times I have noted that British bike riders are the most myserable tight fisted motorcyclists on the planet & BSA riders are the worst of them.

25 year as Club Secretary and not once did a single person ask "who has the best……….?" or even "is there a better ……….?"


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: BSA_WM20] #748221
09/07/18 7:55 am
09/07/18 7:55 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,755
OZ
Triless Online content
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Triless  Online Content
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OZ
Ah , Trevor, would love to have a beer or three with you over a yarn one day ! Would you be attending the International BSA Rally at Halls Gap ? Near where I live.

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: BSA_WM20] #748235
09/07/18 10:45 am
09/07/18 10:45 am
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,898
Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Offline
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Elburn, Ill. USA
To BSA_WM20:

Trevor, If you think BSA owners are "cheap " when it comes to money, you never met USA Harley riders.

All the money in the world to waste on chrome do-dads to overload and disfigure their "Milwaukee Vibrators," but how they whine and cry when it comes into the shop for repairs!

Often their solution to this is to buy a new hammer, a cheap screwdriver (of the wrong size), an adjustable wrench, a case of cheap beer, and begin "fixing" it themselves, usually with disasterous (and EXPENSIVE) results.

Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: BSA_WM20] #748264
09/07/18 6:41 pm
09/07/18 6:41 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,076
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Quote
The last time this pump discussion came up I made a higher volume gerotor pump with spur gear drive from stock components which brings the cost down. There was little interest in it.


Yep every one want to whinge & bitch about oil pumps till you ask them to open their wallets , then they go crawl off into the corner.
Many times I have noted that British bike riders are the most myserable tight fisted motorcyclists on the planet & BSA riders are the worst of them.

25 year as Club Secretary and not once did a single person ask "who has the best……….?" or even "is there a better ……….?"


Nick wasn't the only one, I am not one to skimp on a project, either it doesn't get built or it gets built in the best way possible/best materials etc... the subject became inconclusive and like most things drifted into the ether. Unlike Wassel, who are notorious for selling sh**e, I have yet to hear a bad thing about Davids mechanical offerings... The starter motor for the Triples has a lot of people talking and from what I have seen starts a rocket 3 like a breeze. (unlike the OEM Lucas type)


beerchug
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: DMadigan] #748300
09/08/18 1:41 am
09/08/18 1:41 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,081
Aus
N
NickL Offline OP
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NickL  Offline OP
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Aus
Originally Posted by DMadigan
True Nick, I think you were the only one interested in buying one. I do not have a price for producing them, I only made a test piece. I do not have a running A65 to test one on and I cannot sell them without it.



If you want me to put that device on my bike to test it, just let me know.
My bike having the modified relief setup may be a benefit as i know you were a little concerned about volume being very high.


No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: Hepolite Cast Iron A65 oil pump [Re: NickL] #748304
09/08/18 1:59 am
09/08/18 1:59 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,081
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NickL Offline OP
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NickL  Offline OP
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Aus
Whilst i agree with Trevor's take on the average britbike owner, it should be realised that a huge amount of absolute crap
is sold for very high prices. Just paying top dollar doesn't mean the product is any better. I've bought things like fork legs,
bearings, valves, gaskets, carb parts etc at various dealers and paid much higher prices for them, only to find they are no
better than cheap ones. In fact the cheap ones were in some cases better. I was very loathe to use JCC pistons 15+ years
ago as they were cheap, in fact they are very good and i've used many sets since including in my own bikes.
When i look for a product, i tend to look for value for money. Lots of expensive gear isn't!
When it comes to something like an oil pump, i've yet to come across a beezer one i couldn't rebuild to a satisfactory level,
so purchasing a new one has never really been required. I have however bought and fitted a couple of new triumph ones over
the years.
I doubt the SRM pump is cast, it's more likely machined from bar stock. There is a fair bit of work in an oil pump however it's made
especially in small numbers so i've never thought the price was all that high for the unit complete with gears and all. It's just
that being a stupid idiot, i take the time to rebuild old ones. If i worked out the hours spent, a new one is much cheaper.

Last edited by NickL; 09/08/18 2:36 am.

No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
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