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A65L exhaust pushrods #737788
06/05/18 8:28 pm
06/05/18 8:28 pm
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
G
GeauxTwins Offline OP
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GeauxTwins  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
Hi,

I'm new to the forum,

Last week I replaced my 4 tappet adjusters on my 70 A65T (old ones tip worn out and gaps difficult to set)

I noticed (after adjusting the 4 gaps correctly) with the exhaust valves in close position there is a side play between to tip of the exhaust pushrods and the exhaust rocker balls.
That side play is feeling the same for R and L

Didn't notice a side play with the inlet valves in close position
Never noticed such play on my Triumphs

So, should I replace those two exhaust rods or live with it keeping an eye on it?

Thanks


Trophy 67, A65T 70, T100C 70, TR6R 71, Daytona 72
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Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #737792
06/05/18 9:22 pm
06/05/18 9:22 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,207
Lancaster, California
C.B.S Offline

Parts Dealer
C.B.S  Offline

Parts Dealer

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,207
Lancaster, California
Is this "side play" from the thackery washers or the ball is moving in the cup? Are the push rods new or original? As long as the tappets are contacting in the center of the valve tips I don't see how there would be any problems. Nothing is misaligned... I suppose if the side play is excessive there could be a problem. Perhaps BSA did this to take up any misalignment issues

- Kyle

Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: C.B.S] #737796
06/05/18 9:49 pm
06/05/18 9:49 pm
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
G
GeauxTwins Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
Thanks Kyle,

No misalignment, all perfect,

Yes, side play between the exhaust pushrod cup and rocker ball on R and L
I guess the cups are worn out

I got that bike 7 years ago, put + 10,000 miles on it
PO rebuilt the engine (I did the rest) but no clue if he replaced the rods


Trophy 67, A65T 70, T100C 70, TR6R 71, Daytona 72
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #737800
06/05/18 10:13 pm
06/05/18 10:13 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,207
Lancaster, California
C.B.S Offline

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Posts: 1,207
Lancaster, California
Try a new set, too bad Kibblewhite isn't making A65 push rods...

Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #737823
06/06/18 2:38 am
06/06/18 2:38 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,553
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Posts: 4,553
Owego, NY, USA
How much side play? Is this with the cam backed off (i.e., so there is no tension on the pushrod), or with the play taken up? I would expect a LITTLE side play with the cam backed off, especially if you haven't yet taken up the adjuster to the proper clearance.

However, if there's a noticeable difference between the intake and exhaust pushrods, under the same conditions and with valve clearances set, then I guess something is wrong.



Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #737829
06/06/18 4:47 am
06/06/18 4:47 am
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,849
ca, us
D
DMadigan Offline
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Posts: 3,849
ca, us
Measuring the rocker pins, pushrods and tappets, the spherical ends are 5/32" radius. You should have minimal lateral movement between the pushrod and either end.
A65 CrMo tubular steel pushrods with tool steel ends can be sourced if there is interest.

Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: Mark Z] #737868
06/06/18 4:10 pm
06/06/18 4:10 pm
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
G
GeauxTwins Offline OP
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GeauxTwins  Offline OP
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G

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
Side play feeling like + 1/32 on both exhaust pushrod cups with the play taken off

Yes, should get a new set if that side play abnormal

What kind? Standard alu? CrMo (SRM) as DM recommends? MAP ones?

Thanks to all


Trophy 67, A65T 70, T100C 70, TR6R 71, Daytona 72
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #737903
06/06/18 10:41 pm
06/06/18 10:41 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,025
Aus
N
NickL Online content
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NickL  Online Content
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Posts: 4,025
Aus
Use standard ones. If you change to moly or similar you will need to run different clearance settings due to expansion rates etc.
I would be looking for a reason why they wore out. Poor lubrication? crap oil type? I've never known anyone needing to replace them.

(If you are racing you may gain 0.1 BHP by fitting steel ones.)

Last edited by NickL; 06/06/18 10:45 pm.

No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: NickL] #737997
06/07/18 10:26 pm
06/07/18 10:26 pm
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
G
GeauxTwins Offline OP
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G

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
Good point Nick about a different metal expansion,

Will get new std pushrods then,

Lubrication great around the rockers (Castrol 20W50),

Thanks


Trophy 67, A65T 70, T100C 70, TR6R 71, Daytona 72
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #738003
06/07/18 11:02 pm
06/07/18 11:02 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,119
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
I dont think anything is wrong here.

"I noticed (after adjusting the 4 gaps correctly) with the exhaust valves in close position there is a side play between to tip of the exhaust pushrods and the exhaust rocker balls."

If you give the exhaust 0.010 " clearance there will be a little shake at the push rod end unless you take up the play by pushing on the rocker end.
at 0.008" inlet this will be less noticeable, try moving the exhaust setting in to 8 and see if it still feels weird , just for the hell of it, go to 10 once you are happy.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: gavin eisler] #738365
06/11/18 12:32 pm
06/11/18 12:32 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,008
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Originally Posted by gavin eisler
I dont think anything is wrong here.

"I noticed (after adjusting the 4 gaps correctly) with the exhaust valves in close position there is a side play between to tip of the exhaust pushrods and the exhaust rocker balls."

If you give the exhaust 0.010 " clearance there will be a little shake at the push rod end unless you take up the play by pushing on the rocker end.
at 0.008" inlet this will be less noticeable, try moving the exhaust setting in to 8 and see if it still feels weird , just for the hell of it, go to 10 once you are happy.


+1

If you set your exhaust tappet clearance when the inlets are fully open (and vise versa) then you will have the respective .010" and .008" clearance when the valve is fully closed, you should be able to freely spin the pushrod or rattle it to a small extent.


beerchug
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: Allan Gill] #738470
06/12/18 2:51 am
06/12/18 2:51 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,553
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,553
Owego, NY, USA
Originally Posted by Allan Gill
Originally Posted by gavin eisler
I dont think anything is wrong here.

"I noticed (after adjusting the 4 gaps correctly) with the exhaust valves in close position there is a side play between to tip of the exhaust pushrods and the exhaust rocker balls."

If you give the exhaust 0.010 " clearance there will be a little shake at the push rod end unless you take up the play by pushing on the rocker end.
at 0.008" inlet this will be less noticeable, try moving the exhaust setting in to 8 and see if it still feels weird , just for the hell of it, go to 10 once you are happy.


+1

If you set your exhaust tappet clearance when the inlets are fully open (and vise versa) then you will have the respective .010" and .008" clearance when the valve is fully closed, you should be able to freely spin the pushrod or rattle it to a small extent.


Agree, .010" clearance (exhaust) will allow more side to side play than .008" (intake). However, the correct procedure is to set each clearance when the opposite exhaust or intake valve is fully open. At no point are both intakes or both exhausts fully open.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #738557
06/13/18 12:56 am
06/13/18 12:56 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,025
Aus
N
NickL Online content
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Aus
Correct maybe but i always adjust clearances,,,,,, exhaust just opening, do inlet,,,,, inlet just closing, do exhaust. (same cylinder)
You may find it helps with the a65 top end rattle.



No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #738571
06/13/18 4:10 am
06/13/18 4:10 am
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
G
GeauxTwins Offline OP
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GeauxTwins  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
Hi Guys, thanks all for the advices. Sorry for no reply.
Little Rock last weekend till today, Houston till Friday then driving back home.
Will open rocker cover this weekend to re-check, re-adjust exhaust to 0.008 and see how is the side play.
I got the new pushrods too
Yes I adjusted gaps with the correct procedure


Trophy 67, A65T 70, T100C 70, TR6R 71, Daytona 72
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #738596
06/13/18 12:12 pm
06/13/18 12:12 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 5,008
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

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Allan Gill  Offline

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Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Can’t understand why people insist on using smaller gaps. There is an article somewhere stating that for more performance to set tappers to 10 inlet and 12 exhaust, the 8 and 10 were settings to quieten it down a little. Unless you have an aftermarket cam that states differently I’d be inclined to leave that exhaust valve at 10 thou.

I used to run 10 thou on inlet and exhaust, it made a slight difference to performance as even that tiny adjustment would alter the cam timing. The timing of the closing of the valve being the part most significant. I tried smaller gaps and it made the bike less tractable at lower revs and harder to tick over.


beerchug
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #738648
06/13/18 10:37 pm
06/13/18 10:37 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,025
Aus
N
NickL Online content
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NickL  Online Content
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Aus
The performance gains from having these things rattling like tins of nails or running reasonably quietly, is bugger all, if done properly.
Most of what i'm doing is compensating for wear on the cam/followers and bushes, the actual valve clearance is 8+10 at it's operating point.
You would need to close the clearances down a silly amount to make any real difference to power on these things, a thou or two is naff-all.


No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition................
Bring in the 'Comfy Chair'
Re: A65L exhaust pushrods [Re: GeauxTwins] #739069
06/18/18 11:19 am
06/18/18 11:19 am
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
G
GeauxTwins Offline OP
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GeauxTwins  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 17
Louisiana
Okay, this weekend I replaced the exhaust pushrods with a new set and here is what I found:

First, as Allan recommended with the old rods in place I decreased the gap to 0.008 from 0.010: still some important side play.
I went down to 0.006 and still some play.

Took the rods out and compared with the new set:

New ones longer by 1mm
Head length: old 15 mm / new 14 mm
Head external diameter: old 10.0 mm / new 9.5 mm
Cup diameter: old 8.3 mm / new 8.0 mm (5/32") - visually clear old rods have deeper cups - didn't have on hand a 5/32" ball for comparing how it sinks in.

No clue if the old rods are original or not - no marking on them

Anyway, no more side play with the new set @ 0.010" exhaust gap

Will post something interesting concerning the tappet adjusters on my second post.





Trophy 67, A65T 70, T100C 70, TR6R 71, Daytona 72

Moderated by  Allan Gill, Jon W. Whitley 


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