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A50 vs A65 frames #738381
06/11/18 4:14 pm
06/11/18 4:14 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
I bought a bitsa bike titled on the engine. 71 A65T. Frame is an A50R, with number stamped on L down tube. Left down tube pad is flat, and its black. I'm guessing 69 or 70 on the frame.

Are there any frame differences between the A50 and A65 of the same year? I need to start parts shopping......... TY

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Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738384
06/11/18 4:46 pm
06/11/18 4:46 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,434
Scotland
kommando Online content
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No difference, early production frames until 65/66 were all stamped A50 and both A50 and A65 engines were installed.

Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738387
06/11/18 4:50 pm
06/11/18 4:50 pm
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Posts: 277
UK
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VicCyclone Offline
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UK
Year for year, there is no material difference between A50 and A65 frames. Until early 66, all A50 and A65 frames were stamped A50. Dating your frame is pretty easy if you post a photograph. The only real differences in any case between a Royal Star and a Thunderbolt are the Head/Valves, Cylinders, Pistons, Pushrods, Flywheel, Carb and Camshaft.


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

2009 HD FXDC
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738424
06/11/18 9:26 pm
06/11/18 9:26 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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engine and the roughly shady looking frame number

Attached Files vinblur.jpg20180611_113150.jpg
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: ] #738445
06/12/18 12:03 am
06/12/18 12:03 am
Joined: Aug 2001
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Stone Creek OH USA
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Rich B Offline

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The full loop unit twin frames were only the early single carb bikes - 62 - 65. The open loop started with the 64 dual carb bikes (A50B) frames. All 66 - 70 frames were open loop.

While mostly visually the same, there is a lot of detail changes in the open loop frames.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738451
06/12/18 12:46 am
06/12/18 12:46 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
An obviously "not well" put together bitsa. Engine was said to have been rebuilt, ~10 yrs ago ....and barely run since. Chassis isn't functioning too well......
Engine starts easily and runs well off a battery. There is no wiring harness, switches 0;0 missing lots of little bits.

I'm not sure how to progress on this one. Stock? stock/modern hybrid. Modern chassis and sell off the BSA metal bits? buy all the needed BSA bit? I need to do some thinking..........

Attached Files 20180611_114121_resized.jpg
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738455
06/12/18 12:52 am
06/12/18 12:52 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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whats the deal with the brake plate and up brake arm? 99% of the picts I see, the arm is "down".

Attached Files 20180611_114007_resized.jpg
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738458
06/12/18 1:03 am
06/12/18 1:03 am
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Stone Creek OH USA
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Rich B Offline

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Down is correct.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738461
06/12/18 1:21 am
06/12/18 1:21 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,005
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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Thats a good chassis , with stock length forks and decent rear shocks it should handle well.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: gavin eisler] #738490
06/12/18 9:36 am
06/12/18 9:36 am
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Stone Creek OH USA
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Rich B Offline

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I will second that comment. The dry frame twins are good handling bikes.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738496
06/12/18 11:24 am
06/12/18 11:24 am
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 277
UK
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VicCyclone Offline
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I would rate this much higher than a "not well put together bitsa" Most of the chassis parts you have there look right for 69/70, even the forks can be remedied with a pair of new stanchions. If the motor is OK I would turn this into a rider for not a lot of money. You can rewire it yourself in a day for a few dollars, 700 headlamps and switches are easily found.


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

2009 HD FXDC
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738511
06/12/18 4:08 pm
06/12/18 4:08 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
the engine was rebuilt . the forks WERE supposedly stock, but yes they look a little long. What is the extended fork length for an A65 (center of axle to top tube?

Last edited by rocketscientist; 06/12/18 4:08 pm.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738522
06/12/18 6:19 pm
06/12/18 6:19 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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would be willing to cut this project loose, and even haul it to mid-Ohio..... I'd really like to find a vintage trials bike as a trade!

Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738524
06/12/18 6:38 pm
06/12/18 6:38 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,005
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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The forks are about 2 -3 " over, where the spring tops are should be at the bottom triple yoke tree. Good project for somebody.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738555
06/12/18 11:42 pm
06/12/18 11:42 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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can the stanchions slide up through the top clamps to lower them? If so, also a handy spot for clip-ons to mount.

cheap fix if going the "hot rod" route.

Also: what treatments can be done for sidecovers if NOT running the stocker?

Last edited by rocketscientist; 06/12/18 11:43 pm.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738558
06/13/18 1:24 am
06/13/18 1:24 am
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Posts: 5,088
Stone Creek OH USA
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Rich B Offline

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No, the stanchions are a taper fit into the top triple clamp. The fix is correct stanchions.

Since it already has bitsa tendencies, does it have BSA seal holders (straight) or Triumph seal holders (tapered at the bottom edge)? It makes a difference on finding stanchions.

I have seen people make some nice looking side covers out of cheap aluminum pizza pans.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738701
06/14/18 10:31 am
06/14/18 10:31 am
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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I don't understand the diff. between the BSA and Triumph seal holder. Can you post a pict of each Rich?? thanks. Mike

Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738715
06/14/18 1:18 pm
06/14/18 1:18 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,005
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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That is a 71 motor, the engine number is a little shady, it looks like an L has been changed to a T, the font for the T is wrong, and the BSA script is missing in this zone, however it has a correct 71 single carb head so that tallies?
Other details like the late clutch and barrels tally with this.
The 8 " TLS front brake is a good one, looks like 69 or 70, the 68 brake cable came out at a different angle.
Quite a neat combo of parts, Forking frank or whatever he is called might be able to sort your tubes out, in theory they could be cut at the top, taper and threads re machined. God knows whats happened inside, if you are lucky the damper rods might be in there somewhere, possibly not?


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738720
06/14/18 2:20 pm
06/14/18 2:20 pm
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Posts: 5,088
Stone Creek OH USA
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Rich B Offline

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Mike,

I don't have pictures to post easily. I can try to remember to take some and post. But maybe a clearer description

BSA used straight seal holders larger than the OD of the lower. The lower had a collar brazed to it that was tapered from the OD of chrome seal holder to the OD of the lower. The threads that attached the seal holder was threaded for the seal holder

Triumph used chrome seal holders that were larger than the OD of the lower as well. But Triumph did not use a collar attached to the lower, the lower was threaded and the seal holder had a taper that reduced the OD of the seal holder to the OD of the lower.

I looked at your picture on a PC instead of the iPad and the seal holders appear to be Triumph, The late BSA dry frames used a hybrid Triumph fork. It wasn't all Triumph and it wasn't all BSA. eek


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: Rich B] #738722
06/14/18 2:53 pm
06/14/18 2:53 pm
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Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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so would I need to buy BSA stanchions or Triumph Stanchions in the rebuild??? Here is what I have. Also: front fender has ~ 2" clearance. what gives? mount correct?

Attached Files 20180613_135220_resized.jpg20180613_135212_resized.jpg
Last edited by rocketscientist; 06/14/18 2:54 pm.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738731
06/14/18 4:12 pm
06/14/18 4:12 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
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Stone Creek OH USA
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Rich B Offline

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Definitely Triumph style forks. Order by P/N because the forks are hybrids. There are differences and without a parts book, you can get bit


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738739
06/14/18 5:51 pm
06/14/18 5:51 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,116
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content
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kevin roberts  Online Content
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ohio, usa
don't be afraid of bitsas

1966 frame and tin, numbered A50C
1970 Tbolt motor
71+ speedo
1969 tank because the 66 sprung a leak

thumps along just fine

[Linked Image]


i have no idea what i'm doing.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: kevin roberts] #738749
06/14/18 7:54 pm
06/14/18 7:54 pm
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gastonia nc
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raf940 Online content
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my bitsa pieced together 66 bottom end with OIF single carb head and late 60s barrels.. 68 frame 7" front brake emgo stuff NOS stuff eBay stuff pazon podtronics etc. etc.. 2 kicks starts it...

[Linked Image]


1972 Triumph T120
1968 BSA A65
1968 MGB Roadster
1979 Chevrolet Camaro Berlinetta
1969 Honda Mini Trail
1939 farmall f30 tractor
2004 Honda Shadow Aero
1972 BSA Thunderbolt
1975 yamaha xs650b
1972 Norton commando project
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738808
06/15/18 2:54 pm
06/15/18 2:54 pm
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
Smackinthemiddle, NJ
rocketscientist Online content OP
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Rich: what's the parts issue? Do I order BSA tubes and bushes with triumph seals? Not sure what is different.
thanks
Mike

Last edited by rocketscientist; 06/15/18 6:16 pm.
Re: A50 vs A65 frames [Re: rocketscientist] #738855
06/16/18 1:21 am
06/16/18 1:21 am
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Posts: 5,088
Stone Creek OH USA
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Rich B Offline

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The 69/70 forks were hybrids. They were largely Triumph forks, but not everything was Triumph. Go by the parts book because they are some surprises with mismatched pieces.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
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