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Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: gavin eisler] #737478
06/02/18 11:59 pm
06/02/18 11:59 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Offline OP

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Magnetoman  Offline OP

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Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
my next post here should have us back to our regularly scheduled programming.
I was overly optimistic, since I was tied up with emails until lunch and then spent the afternoon dealing with the Matchless and Catalina.. However, this time I mean it, my next post will be back on the Ariel.[*]

[*]Update: the variable magneto sprocket arrived from Australia today, so this post contains actual Ariel content. I just have to hope he sent the Northern Hemisphere version that rotates the correct direction, rather than the Australian version...

Originally Posted by gavin eisler
was disappointed that the half hour on the beauty of a BSA Goldstar seemed to have been edited out,
That part alone was a full 90 minutes with intermission, but the editor felt the beauty of the Gold Star was so renowned and universally acknowledged that the discussion of it could be removed in the interests of viewing time.

Attached Files Sprocket_variable.jpg
Last edited by Magnetoman; 06/03/18 3:27 am. Reason: [*] Update
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Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737601
06/04/18 12:58 am
06/04/18 12:58 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Offline OP

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I used the rotary table with a tungsten scribe mounted in the mill to make index marks every 4-degree (engine) on the variable sprocket. The small diameter doesn't allow for divisions much finer than that. However, with an eye loupe this give me the resolution to adjust the timing to ~1-deg. The idea will be to have the sprocket in the middle of its adjusting range, try to hit the correct timing value as best as possible when clamping the sprocket onto the taper of the magneto, and then use the sprocket to adjust for how far things moved when the sprocket was tightened onto the taper. I'll see tomorrow how well this idea actually works when mounted on the bike.

I then made an anvil from a length of 3/4" Al, milling the necessary recess to let my new Motion Pro chain beaker/press/riveter remove pressed on (but not riveted) O-ring master links.

Done with fabrication I finished the day by spending a few hours basically just taking things off the Ariel and putting them back on, leaving the bike pretty much in the same configuration as when I started. But, with everything adjusted and fitting better than when I started.

Attached Files Sprocket_Variable2.jpgSprocket_Variable3.jpg
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737629
06/04/18 8:11 am
06/04/18 8:11 am
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,819
Sydney Australia
B
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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
I used the rotary table with a tungsten scribe mounted in the mill to make index marks every 4-degree (engine) on the variable sprocket. The small diameter doesn't allow for divisions much finer than that. However, with an eye loupe this give me the resolution to adjust the timing to ~1-deg. The idea will be to have the sprocket in the middle of its adjusting range, try to hit the correct timing value as best as possible when clamping the sprocket onto the taper of the magneto, and then use the sprocket to adjust for how far things moved when the sprocket was tightened onto the taper. I'll see tomorrow how well this idea actually works when mounted on the bike.

I then made an anvil from a length of 3/4" Al, milling the necessary recess to let my new Motion Pro chain beaker/press/riveter remove pressed on (but not riveted) O-ring master links.

Done with fabrication I finished the day by spending a few hours basically just taking things off the Ariel and putting them back on, leaving the bike pretty much in the same configuration as when I started. But, with everything adjusted and fitting better than when I started.


Out of curiosity is that one of the sprockets Ian Wright is making ?


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737634
06/04/18 11:16 am
06/04/18 11:16 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 78
Maida Vale, Western Australia
R
Richard Kal Offline
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R
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Posts: 78
Maida Vale, Western Australia
Martyn Adams

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737721
06/05/18 4:41 am
06/05/18 4:41 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Richard Kal
Martyn Adams
Yes, that's the man.

To take one big factor out of the equation should it not start I tested the magneto in situ. I had not bothered to test it long ago since I intended (and still intend) to completely rebuild it, and somehow it found itself bolted to the Ariel as-is. It would have been easy enough to remove the two bolts holding it and attach to one of my magneto testers, except I'd already routed the advance/retard cable to the handlebars and attached the fuel tank. So I threaded a scrap piece of 3/8" Al rod the necessary 3/8-20 in order to jam on the shaft with a magneto nut and use a portable drill in reverse. It had a nice spark so I moved on to the magneto sprocket.

I thought about fabricating a sprocket extractor for the new sprocket (which lacks the threaded boss on the original) but decided that could wait until later. That almost turned out to be a mistake. Anyway, after I had removed the current sprocket with the sprocket extractor and tested the magneto, I installed the variable one, but didn't clamp it to the taper just yet.

Ariel manuals call for setting the timing between 7/16" (11.1 mm) and 1/2" (12.7 mm) BTDC. These values correspond to a range between 36.2 deg. and 38.9 deg. Two ridges in the head near the spark plug that I marked with silver paint let me set the height of the slider on a machinist's ruler at TDC to which I then add the desired number of mm, and then rock the location of the piston using the rear wheel to get it to the point where it just touches the ruler. Anyway, I decided to aim for 38 degrees at full advance, which I could always decrease in the future if I found myself operating with the advance/retard lever at other than full advance when underway.

The inductance of the secondary of the magneto increases by a factor of 10x when the points open making an inductance meter much easier to use than cigarette paper. At this point I got distracted and set the engine at 38 deg. After TDC when I tightened the sprocket. Luckily, I have a good stock of fasteners and three long 4 mm screws pushed the sprocket off the taper. These screws are now in a labeled plastic bag to be part of my tool kit.

I set the engine at 38 degrees BTDC, turned the magneto until the points just opened, and tightened the sprocket onto the shaft. When I checked the timing was off by 5.5 deg. due to slight slipping on the taper as the nut was tightened. However, thanks to having the variable sprocket achieving the desired value was much easier than it would have been with the stock sprocket. I moved the variable sprocket by my best judgment of the 5.5 deg.. Whether by beginner's luck or skill (significantly aided by the 4-deg. marks I had engraved), when I rechecked the timing it was at 38.3 deg. What is normally a frustrating process of repeated trial and error was made much faster by the variable sprocket.

The last thing I did for the day was remove the tools and detritus from the lift and lower it to the floor. So, I'm getting dangerously close to seeing if it's alive. All that remains is to get a gallon of fresh fuel and remind myself which of the three spark plugs I bought quite a while ago is the grade I should use: they're Champion D9/509, D16/516, and D23/523.

Attached Files Magneto001.jpgMagneto002.jpgMagneto004.jpgMagneto003.jpg
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737729
06/05/18 7:30 am
06/05/18 7:30 am
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Offline
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Farnham, Surrey, UK
Good work MM, lets hope it starts smile


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: gunner] #737807
06/05/18 11:43 pm
06/05/18 11:43 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Offline OP

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Originally Posted by gunner
lets hope it starts
See below:

About the engine shock absorber the manual says "the spring is not adjustable for tension. The correct value has been determined by careful experiment and the spring is designed to give this tension when the sprocket nuts are correctly screwed in." Unfortunately, the non-adjustability is an issue after 90 years. The sprocket spun with a ratcheting noise as I tried to kick start it, without spinning the engine. It's a very good thing I tried starting it on the lift because to fix the problem with the sprocket the primary cover had to come off along with the primary chain. Sigh...

After confirming with the parts manual that I hadn't left anything out I measured the spring's compressed length in the engine (0.9"), removed it, and measured its spring constant (~395 lbs./in.). At its compressed length of 0.9" it exerts ~120 lbs. against the shock absorber so I decided to try making a spacer to preload the spring by ~0.2". This would add to the force but still not be thick enough to stop the spring from compressing enough to allow the shock absorber to work. Since I was shooting in the dark I didn't worry too much about precision and the spacer ended up 0.184" thick, adding ~73 lbs. for a total of ~193 (i.e. +60%).

The nut barely starts on the end of the crankshaft with the stock spring so I would have to push sideways with that 73 lbs. to compress the spring enough to get the nut started with the spacer in place. The sprocket has a reducing sleeve inside so I first thought to remove it and make a nut with an extended bottom of the type often found on magnetos. Unfortunately, the thread on the crankshaft is an uncommon 11/16-20. At least, uncommon enough that I don't have a tap that size. So, I compressed the spring in the vise and tied it with safety wire. Once I had everything in place and the nut started on the threads I cut the wire loose. I will be ordering an 11/16-20 tap to make that special nut since if the shock absorber has to come off for any reason it will be a lot easier to do the work with the nut than with a vise and safety wire.

With the spacer in place it was time to see if the spring was now strong enough. So, since I would be kicking it over anyway, I might as well turn the fuel on, tickle the carb and retard the magneto a little. Damn if it didn't start on the first kick! I kept it running longer than I should so I could hop off, open my iPhone, and take a few short videos. Unfortunately, Britbike doesn't allow videos to be uploaded. As a result of the toxic air work ceased almost immediately.

I have a long hose specifically made for carrying exhaust fumes out of the garage, along with adapters to slip over the ends of the pipes of all my bikes. Except the Ariel. Three guesses why I don't have an adapter for the end of the Ariel exhaust pipe.

It's still on the lift so I'll raise it again tomorrow to bolt the primary cover back on, along with the brake lever. Then, time to let it see daylight again for the first time in a year and start making ever longer test runs to sort out everything that needs sorting out.

Attached Files ShockAbsorber.jpgExhaust.jpg
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737811
06/06/18 12:38 am
06/06/18 12:38 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,657
OZ
Triless Online content
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Triless  Online Content
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Posts: 1,657
OZ
Good on you, MM. I'll bet this will rank as a very memorable moment !

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Triless] #737824
06/06/18 2:57 am
06/06/18 2:57 am
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 33
NY State
N
NYBSAGUY Online content

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Posts: 33
NY State
Bravo, Magnetoman!

And this with the original magneto in place, and apparently working..

Perhaps, after this, you'll re-visit your various theories on magnetism and the electro-physics of 90yo motorcycles.

Well done. Can't wait to see it in person, a few months hence.

Sean


1949 BSA ZB34 'Bitsa'
1959 BSA DBD34 Catalina
1973 Norton Commando 850 R
1974 Norton Commando 850 R (I know, one too many)
1998 Montesa HRC Trials
2004 Ducati M1000ie
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737830
06/06/18 5:05 am
06/06/18 5:05 am
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 189
Los Angeles, CA
L
L.A.kevin Offline
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L
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 189
Los Angeles, CA
Awesome work, MM! Now for the shake apart rides, err... shake down rides!

Bueno suerte, chingon!

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737878
06/06/18 6:25 pm
06/06/18 6:25 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Offline OP

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Originally Posted by Triless
I'll bet this will rank as a very memorable moment !
Even had it taken two kicks I would have felt the same combination of accomplishment/pride/satisfaction. And relief. Let's not forget relief that it not only started, but that it didn't make any suspicious noises despite running for the better part of a minute. It's off to a good, ahem, start and only has to run ~10,000x longer than that to make it across the country...

Originally Posted by NYBSAGUY
Perhaps, after this, you'll re-visit your various theories on magnetism and the electro-physics of 90yo motorcycles.
The mysteries of what might have been done to that magneto in the 90 years since it was made will be revealed for all to see when I dissect it. I'll also finish rebuilding the magdyno to swap for the magneto so I can keep making test rides while working on the magneto.

Originally Posted by L.A.kevin
Now for the shake apart rides,
Unfortunately, summer hit here with a vengeance a few days ago, and the ten-day forecast shows we'll be 5 oF above the normal hot high through the weekend, with it not dropping back to normal, still-hot, temperatures for over a week. That means my plan for today is to bolt the primary cover back on and do another careful check, re-lube the valves, adjust the valve lifter (which didn't seem to be lifting the valve yesterday), etc.

The rule of thumb around here for the summer months is it is 80 (oF) by 8 (a.m.), 90 by 9, and 100 by 10, with it continuing to rise beyond that more slowly until reaching that day's high around 3:00 pm. Only mad dogs, coyotes, and English motorcycle riders would be out around here after 10 a.m. in the summer. I'll set my alarm to hit the road early tomorrow for a two-mile run to the end of the street and back. Not that I'll need them, mind you, but I already have the loading ramps in the pickup...

My main concern for my initial laps of the driveway tomorrow will be to make sure I see some oil drops dribbling through the sight glass. Taking it easy to check on things like oil flow, wheels falling off, etc. is inconsistent with seating the rings but if all seems to be OK with the bike I then plan to make one or two two-mile laps of my neighborhood.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737891
06/06/18 9:03 pm
06/06/18 9:03 pm
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 348
Irene, South Africa
robcurrie Offline
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Irene, South Africa
Well done! You will also need the practice of all the different controls and lube rituals. How is the grease in the gearbox doing? I bet you'll feel a bit of drag when it gets colder. Is the saddle comfortable for 4000 miles?

Rob C

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737911
06/06/18 11:30 pm
06/06/18 11:30 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,283
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline
fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline
fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,283
ohio, usa
it's time for some full-frontal photography. i can't hardly remember what the whole thing looks like in one piece.

do some pictures now so if it blows up when you start it we'll know what it was supposed to look like.


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: kevin roberts] #737924
06/07/18 3:37 am
06/07/18 3:37 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Offline OP

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Magnetoman  Offline OP

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Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Originally Posted by robcurrie
You will also need the practice of all the different controls and lube rituals. How is the grease in the gearbox doing? I bet you'll feel a bit of drag when it gets colder. Is the saddle comfortable for 4000 miles?
The number of controls and rituals is pretty amazing. I'll have to hope I can keep track of everything without a heads-up display connected to the engine's CPU by Bluetooth.

Originally Posted by kevin roberts
it's time for some full-frontal photography.
I'll definitely make that my first priority after I move the bike outside to get ready to start making things fall off of it. Meanwhile, I decided it's still a day or two from being ready for prime time. Today I took are of some details since, no doubt, more will come to light once I start riding it.

One problem is the clip for the center stand isn't strong enough for the potholes in my neighborhood street. I tapped a brass wing nut 5/16-26 so I can easily adjust the tension as well as lengthened the threaded portion of the bolt so I can rigidly clamp the stand and not rely on spring pressure if desired. As I do with my other bikes, I ran a loop of safety wire around the end of the kickstart rubber to make it so it can't slip over the nub at the end of the lever. Also, I removed the slack in the compression release cable so the lever now opens the exhaust valve as it should.

The most time consuming task today was machining a tool to compress the engine shock absorber spring. Even though the spring pressure seems fine now with the Al spacer I added, should the engine sprocket need to be removed on the ride for any reason it would be thrown across the room with ~75 lbs. of force when the nut was removed. Also, getting it back on would be a problem. So, I machined a "tool" from scrap 1/4" steel that slips on either side of the spring to compress it when it is in place on the engine. I then used my new tool to take the nuts off the sprocket so I could measure the OD of the hole in the sprocket so I can later machine an extended magneto-like nut to fit it if I decide to.

Attached Files CenterStandClamp.jpgKickstartRubber.jpgSpringCompresser01.jpgSpringCompresser02.jpg
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737926
06/07/18 4:47 am
06/07/18 4:47 am
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Offline
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gunner  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
Quote
Is the saddle comfortable for 4000 miles?


This was my thought as well, 4000 miles over 2 weeks or so is a fair distance to ride on a modern bike, on a pre 1929 bike its going to be hard work on the body.

Perhaps you could increase the size, padding and springing of the saddle also adjust the forks for max comfort.

Take some Ibuprofen pain killer tablets or muscle rub with you and maybe learn yoga beforehand to stretch the muscles.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: gunner] #737929
06/07/18 5:53 am
06/07/18 5:53 am
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Offline OP

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Magnetoman  Offline OP

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Joined: Nov 2011
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U.S.
Originally Posted by gunner
Quote
Is the saddle comfortable for 4000 miles?
This was my thought as well, 4000 miles over 2 weeks or so is a fair distance to ride on a modern bike, on a pre 1929 bike its going to be hard work on the body.
I forgot to answer this question before. Quite some time ago someone posted a suggestion for a type of seat padding, which I bought. Whether it does any good remains to be seen.

I don't know what toll the miles will take on me. Although it is certainly a concern, I think I might be in better physical shape than many of the competitors in previous years and somehow they made it, which gives me hope. I'm reminded of something I think Gen. Eisenhower said (although I can't find the quote) about all the reasons our army would have problems in battle (logistics, lines of communication, etc.), but luckily we were fighting another army and they have all the same problems.

For what it's worth, the last day of last fall's Texas ride on my BB Gold Star was 290 miles, comparable to what we'll be doing each day on the Cannonball. True, the BB has a suspension of sorts, but I can't say there was much of a physical toll on me that day. However, it's one thing to ride for six hours and then have the better part of 18 to rest afterwards, and quite another to pull in at 8pm after having fought mechanical issues all day, spend four hours getting the bike ready for the next day, and then having not enough time to sleep. From the start I've been very much counting on OCD preparation of the Ariel to compensate for my lack of Ironman stamina.

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #737988
06/07/18 7:34 pm
06/07/18 7:34 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Offline
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gunner  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
Quote
As I do with my other bikes, I ran a loop of safety wire around the end of the kickstart rubber to make it so it can't slip over the nub at the end of the lever


That's a good tip and something I have been trying to resolve on my bikes for years so will give it a try.

On previous long distance bike rides spanning 2 weeks or so, I have generally found the first few days to be hard work as my body slowly adjusted to the high mileage, riding position, general discomfort & handling characteristics. After this 'break in' period one becomes part of the machine and the whole experience becomes much more pleasurable. This probably reveals that I don't ride every day and when I do ride its at weekends with relatively low miles.

If I were doing the Cannonball I would prepare in the same way as marathon runners do. In other words, gradually build up the miles every day or two for a few months until you are approaching the Cannonball daily average mileage. Then stop and rest for a week beforehand to build up energy. This should put you in top condition for the long ride ahead.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #738047
06/08/18 1:00 pm
06/08/18 1:00 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
New Jersey
Keane Lucas Offline

BritBike Forum member
Keane Lucas  Offline

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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 375
New Jersey
Originally Posted by Magnetoman


I don't know what toll the miles will take on me.


Perhaps l could add to this great thread-
"Let food be your medicine,let medicine be your food"-Hippocrates
As a 57 year old truck driver,who avoids truck stop food,for many years now,
I feel l have benefited,from compounded powders.
Vegetables and/or fruit,are heated to around 105F,
and put in a centrifuge,to remove water.
Low heat, preserves the raw food benefits.
What is left,is a concentrated powder,that a scoop of which,will provide several times more vegetable/fruit intake,
than the Standard American Diet-SAD-provides.
Here are 3 products l use daily-
Link 1
I prefer 'natural',it tastes like Farina/Cream of Wheat,and mixes well with the next 2 items-
Link 2
Link 3

l use a scoop of plant fusion,with a scoop of,one of the other products,in 8oz
of water and mix with a Proctor-Silex,hand blender.
Best wishes,on your great adventure.


1969 BSA A65T w/A70 engine
1970 Royal Enfield Interceptor S ll
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #738053
06/08/18 1:29 pm
06/08/18 1:29 pm
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,819
Sydney Australia
B
BSA_WM20 Offline
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BSA_WM20  Offline
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B
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,819
Sydney Australia
Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by gunner
Quote
Is the saddle comfortable for 4000 miles?
This was my thought as well, 4000 miles over 2 weeks or so is a fair distance to ride on a modern bike, on a pre 1929 bike its going to be hard work on the body.
I forgot to answer this question before. Quite some time ago someone posted a suggestion for a type of seat padding, which I bought. Whether it does any good remains to be seen.

I don't know what toll the miles will take on me. Although it is certainly a concern, I think I might be in better physical shape than many of the competitors in previous years and somehow they made it, which gives me hope. I'm reminded of something I think Gen. Eisenhower said (although I can't find the quote) about all the reasons our army would have problems in battle (logistics, lines of communication, etc.), but luckily we were fighting another army and they have all the same problems.

For what it's worth, the last day of last fall's Texas ride on my BB Gold Star was 290 miles, comparable to what we'll be doing each day on the Cannonball. True, the BB has a suspension of sorts, but I can't say there was much of a physical toll on me that day. However, it's one thing to ride for six hours and then have the better part of 18 to rest afterwards, and quite another to pull in at 8pm after having fought mechanical issues all day, spend four hours getting the bike ready for the next day, and then having not enough time to sleep. From the start I've been very much counting on OCD preparation of the Ariel to compensate for my lack of Ironman stamina.


You spend a lot of time with your legs lifting your rear end just off the saddle when riding a rigid.
This is something you can condition your thighs to while riding your other bikes.
Sore bum was never a problem, stiff & aching legs was.
If you are at all prone to leg cramps this will make them a lot worse.
However it is very important that the seat will not foul on anything under it .
I raised the M20's seat 3" and repositioned the rectifier thinking the extra 3" meant I would never bottom out onto it.
Thought was very wrong and every time the springs stretched far enough to hit the rectifier it was really painful to the spine.
I put extra padding under the saddle wrapped in pallet shrink wrap so that when it got wet it did not adsorb water originally when there was some sort of a cover left.

Check the front mount.
I had to bush mine to stop the saddle doing the rhumba which made the ride a lot more confidant if not comfortable.

Well done by the way, almost a shame you have finished this was a really enjoyable & informative thread


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #738054
06/08/18 1:36 pm
06/08/18 1:36 pm
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,819
Sydney Australia
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BSA_WM20 Offline
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And now that you will be breaking in the bike, pay very careful attention to the tyre pressures.
The ribbed tyre on the front was very sensitive to pressure and as little as 1psi made a massive difference to the handling .
The rear was just finding a balance between solid confident handling and soft adsorption of minor road roughness.


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #738095
06/08/18 11:11 pm
06/08/18 11:11 pm
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,642
U.S.
Magnetoman Offline OP

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Magnetoman  Offline OP

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Originally Posted by gunner
If I were doing the Cannonball I would prepare in the same way as marathon runners do.
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
You spend a lot of time with your legs lifting your rear end just off the saddle when riding a rigid.
This is something you can condition your thighs to while riding your other bikes.
Sore bum was never a problem, stiff & aching legs was.
Yesterday I finally gave in to pressure from my wife and joined her gym. Actually, my plan was to do this in January, but somehow here it is June. Having not been in a gym since high school I was subjected to instruments of torture that would have made Torquemada weep with envy. Anyway, I will have a personal trainer twice a week between now and September, and will go in one additional day myself. My trainer claims that will be sufficient time and pain to achieve my goals. We'll see...

Originally Posted by Keane Lucas
"Let food be your medicine,let medicine be your food"-Hippocrates
Food on the ride is definitely a concern. Thanks very much for your suggestions. I understand there will be a number of mandatory stops, primarily at Harley dealers, where judging from past years we can expect food like cheeseburgers and fries. Me surviving these stops may be more difficult than the bike surviving 4000 miles.

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
pay very careful attention to the tyre pressures.
The ribbed tyre on the front was very sensitive to pressure and as little as 1psi made a massive difference to the handling
I have non-ribbed Avon Roadriders on the Ariel, 3.25 for the front, and 100/90 for the rear. My first rides will be on poorly maintained neighborhood roads so it's unlikely I'll get any sort of feel for the effect of pressure, but I'll pay attention once I've advanced to longer stretches on better roads.

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
Well done by the way, almost a shame you have finished this was a really enjoyable & informative thread
The fat lady hasn't sung yet so it's premature to anticipate the death of this thread anytime soon.

For pre-WWII bike owners reading this, the Ariel catalog shows two speedometers as accessories at the time. One (not shown in the figure) had the drive on the front wheel and the speedometer on the forks, but the other took the drive from the rear wheel and had the speedometer somehow mounted over the tank. Unfortunately, the catalog doesn't show how it is mounted. If anyone has photos showing how speedometers are mounted on non-flat-tank motorcycles of the time, please post them or point me to links on the web. Mounting on flat tank bikes is easy because the frame tube is above the tank, but there's no obvious place on the Ariel.

I have an age-inappropriate Chronometric speedometer that I got some months ago from Kurt Fischer and the reason I'm interested in mounting it above the tank can be seen from how cluttered the handlebars already are. From left to right in the photograph are: 1) decompressor lever, 2) clutch lever, 3) left mirror (two are required), 4) watch/altimeter, 5) bicycle speedometer, 6) GPS holder, 7) route sheet holder, 8) electric horn, 9) button for horn, 10) magneto lever, 11) right mirror, 12) choke lever, 13) throttle, and 14) front brake lever. The watch/altimeter is just loosely strapped around the handlebars for now and a GPS unit can't be used in the rally but will be useful to accurately calibrate the bicycle speedometer before then.

Anyway, despite having the bicycle speedometer I'd also like to have a "real" one. Since Kurt's Chronometric was used on 1952 "Road Model" Gold Stars, and since I have a fondness for those machines, I find it an especially appealing connection to the earlier Val Page-designed Ariel. Although I have the necessary Smith's rear-wheel gearbox as well as the mating gear already mounted to the wheel, sorting out the gearing to get an accurate reading from the speedometer is going to take some time and effort once it is mounted.

Attached Files Handlebars.jpgSpeedometer_tank.jpgSpeedometer_gearbox.jpg
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #738097
06/08/18 11:30 pm
06/08/18 11:30 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 768
Overland Missouri
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old mule Offline
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Overland Missouri
As the Frenchmen used to say before the Tour de France, "eat before you're hungry, drink before you're thirsty, rest before you're tired".
This is the best motorcycle mechanics thread on the net- if only you had a hipster beard, tight pants, and an angle grinder to make sparky vids, you'd be a media star.

Inspiring shop work!

Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #738108
06/09/18 1:30 am
06/09/18 1:30 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,068
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Online content
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gavin eisler  Online Content
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Posts: 4,068
argyll. scotland, uk
If you dont have them now, padded cycling shorts, sheep skin and roll mat material, once the saddle springs start sawing at your arse bones its sore. Having sat on a sprung saddle a fair bit in my youth I would have a thick lining between the springs and the cover.leather and roll mat maybe. Defo the sheepskin. Stops the saddle heating up in the sun when parked. handy for beating out flames too. If you are tall, raise the seat or your knees will suffer.
Great to hear that its going, and you are also getting revved up, bon chance. Nothing like time on the bike to get bike fit.


71 Devimead A65 750
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The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #738133
06/09/18 7:06 am
06/09/18 7:06 am
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 86
England
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George Kaplan Offline
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England
Hello MM, like everyone else has already said, well done so far and good luck on the next phase phase of getting this bike ready for the Cannonball.


Originally Posted by Magnetoman
If anyone has photos showing how speedometers are mounted on non-flat-tank motorcycles of the time, please post them or point me to links on the web. Mounting on flat tank bikes is easy because the frame tube is above the tank, but there's no obvious place on the Ariel.


I couldn't find any obvious picture on the web and I have no doubt that you have looked already. However my Harley 20F has the speedometer on the tank mounted via a bracket and driven from the rear wheel. It doesn't clamp to a tube because the tube is under the tank so the bracket is attached to the bolts down the middle of the tank. Now I know that your saddle tank doesn't have these bolts but are there any other places that you could fabricate a bracket for your speedo? It should also be noted that the speedo has the drive coming out from it at right angles so the cable routing is easy. I suspect your Smiths instrument has the cable coming out of the back so cable routing will be trickier unless you can procure or make a right angle adapter for it?

Some pictures of mine are on page 10 of my build thread here: http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bboard/showthread.php?25051-1920-Harley-Model-F/page10

Note that you may need to install the Photobucket patch into Firefox or Chrome if you cant see them. If you cant then let me know and I will email some to you.

George.


Last edited by George Kaplan; 06/09/18 7:29 am. Reason: Spelling
Re: 1928 Ariel Model C [Re: Magnetoman] #738136
06/09/18 8:50 am
06/09/18 8:50 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,174
Scotland
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Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
I have non-ribbed Avon Roadriders on the Ariel, 3.25 for the front, and 100/90 for the rear.

Apologies in advance if you've tried the combination before and are happy with them. If not, modern-design tyres are wider overall than the same 'sizes' in older designs, and a notionally-smaller 'modern' width can be more suitable on an older/lighter/less-powerful bike, particularly on the front. As with pressure differences, riding on poorly maintained-roads might mask steering and other handling problems from too-wide tyres.

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
You spend a lot of time with your legs lifting your rear end just off the saddle when riding a rigid.
This is something you can condition your thighs to
Yesterday I finally gave in to pressure from my wife and joined her gym.

You could try one of the exercises I do before the ski season - lean back and bum against a wall, walk legs outwards while sliding back/bum down the wall 'til thighs are parallel to the ground, hold the position as long as possible, straighten, rest, repeat. grin

Originally Posted by Magnetoman
I understand there will be a number of mandatory stops, primarily at Harley dealers, where judging from past years we can expect food like cheeseburgers and fries. Me surviving these stops may be more difficult than the bike surviving 4000 miles.

cool

Hth.

Regards,

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