BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor

BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
Jwood & co JRC Engineering dealers Jwood & co
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons, "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Member Spotlight
Dr_Hiller
Dr_Hiller
Seattle, WA USA
Posts: 243
Joined: October 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Shout Box
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Who's Online Now
29 registered members (998John), 178 guests, and 474 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
RickRider88, PreunitPeter, Tcycles, Metalguru, hanscarlsson
10222 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Stuart 115
Lannis 96
NickL 73
L.A.B. 61
Popular Topics(Views)
584,442 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics66,876
Posts648,762
Members10,222
Most Online3,995
Feb 13th, 2017
Like BritBike.com on Facebook

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
BSA A65 Gearbox Oil #554521
07/23/14 8:39 pm
07/23/14 8:39 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 70
PA, USA
Rob Barker Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Rob Barker  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 70
PA, USA
Hi All. I can't seem to get the search engine to come up with answer to this: What kind of oil should I put in the gearbox of my 1970 BSA Thunderbolt? I have a workshop manual that says SAE 50, but the only fifty weight oil I can find is Valvoline "Racing Oil". Is this what I need?

Also: I don't know what was in it before, but when I drained the old oil it came out all creamy and emulsified. I can't imagine that it was water, because it sleeps in a dry garage. If it's just air, is it the fault of the old oil or what?

Rob

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #554530
07/23/14 9:18 pm
07/23/14 9:18 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,404
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Online content
BritBike Forum member
Mark Z  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,404
Owego, NY, USA
80-90W gear oil.

Yes, the milky look is from water. Some say that condensation alone can result in that much water in the oil. If not, then water getting in through the filler cap or through the clutch cable stanchion - there's supposed to be a rubber boot on that, which is often broken or missing. The filler cap gasket (fiber washer) may also be worn or missing. The water could have gotten in there a while ago... In any case, water in there for too long can ruin your tranny bearings. Good idea to change the oil at least once a year.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #554559
07/24/14 1:01 am
07/24/14 1:01 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,972
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

BritBike Forum member
DavidP  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,972
Gnashville
Does the '70 model have the nylon cap with the dipstick?
Those caps are vented, and can admit water. I end up changing my gear oil quite often.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #554563
07/24/14 1:30 am
07/24/14 1:30 am
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,246
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
BritBike Forum member
leon bee  Offline
BritBike Forum member
L
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,246
arkansas
Modern gear oil for me as well. In my humid climate oil turns milky even with bikes mostly inside after a year or two.

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #554572
07/24/14 2:01 am
07/24/14 2:01 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,809
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,809
Scotland
Hi Rob,

Originally Posted By: Rob Barker
What kind of oil should I put in the gearbox of my 1970 BSA Thunderbolt?

Not specifically for an A65 but this was recommended by then British triples' dealer, builder and racer Phil Pick.

Originally Posted By: Rob Barker
when I drained the old oil it came out all creamy and emulsified.

It probably is emulsified old oil but, if that synthetic has a disadvantage, it's a similar colour to emulsified old dino juice. whistle

Hth.

Regards,

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #554711
07/24/14 7:40 pm
07/24/14 7:40 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 70
PA, USA
Rob Barker Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Rob Barker  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 70
PA, USA
It could have been condensation, but I would tend to doubt it. It does get pretty humid in my garage sometimes, though.

Yes, it has the nylon plug with the dipstick. And the boot around the clutch cable is intact and tight.

I'll try filling it with EP90 for now, but I may end up stripping the gearbox to see if everything's okay because I have a phobia about gearboxes seizing up while I'm dodging tractor-trailers on the interstate.

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #555007
07/26/14 2:03 pm
07/26/14 2:03 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,404
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Online content
BritBike Forum member
Mark Z  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,404
Owego, NY, USA
I don't know if it's necessary to strip the gearbox - you can tell if the bearings are ok by turning the shafts with no load on them. For instance, for the high gear bearing, remove the drive chain and, with the gearbox in neutral, turn the gearbox sprocket with your fingers. For the mainshaft ball bearing, remove the clutch discs and turn the mainshaft. Or, if you have the inner timing cover off, you can turn the mainshaft from that end. The bearings should feel silky-smooth. If they feel "rocky", time to replace. This is of course after changing the oil.

I worked on a T140 with a bad high gear bearing, and you could feel that it was bad just rolling the bike across the floor in neutral.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #555238
07/27/14 10:44 pm
07/27/14 10:44 pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,972
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

BritBike Forum member
DavidP  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,972
Gnashville
Also check for any end play (lateral movement) on the main shaft. I just replaced main-shaft bearings because of this. Both 'rolled' just fine, but the center was loose. Made my clutch act funny, hard to adjust properly.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #555979
08/01/14 12:08 am
08/01/14 12:08 am
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 55
Victoria, BC
I
illingworth Offline
BritBike Forum member
illingworth  Offline
BritBike Forum member
I
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 55
Victoria, BC
Does old oil go bad sitting in a bottle? I just found an old half bottle of EP gear oil from about a dozen years ago. It was in the garage but the lid was on. Is it ruined?

jeremy

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #557180
08/07/14 9:37 am
08/07/14 9:37 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,881
Cape Carteret, NC
M
Mr Mike Offline
BritBike Forum member
Mr Mike  Offline
BritBike Forum member
M
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,881
Cape Carteret, NC
I run gear oil in all the my BSA's. I rarely change it, just keep it topped off. The stuff lasts a long time. How often do you change it in the rear differential of your car?

Mr Mike

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #557497
08/08/14 11:15 pm
08/08/14 11:15 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,404
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Online content
BritBike Forum member
Mark Z  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,404
Owego, NY, USA
Gotta call you on this one, Mike, not a fair comparison. The rear end in your car is a much simpler and less delicate device than your BSA transmission. And for some reason, car diffs. don't tend to absorb moisture. Ever since I first saw milky oil come out of my gearbox, I change it at least once a year.

Actually, what did it for me was replacing the tranny bearings in a T140, ruined because of water in the gearbox. It was someone else's, so I didn't have to pay for the parts, and I did get a small stipend for my work, but I noted that this was not something I want to go through on my BSA, and it's completely avoidable, for the price of a pint or two of gear oil a year.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Mark Z] #557514
08/09/14 6:25 am
08/09/14 6:25 am
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,957
Boston, Massachusetts, USA
kurt fischer Offline

#irideslow
kurt fischer  Offline

#irideslow
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,957
Boston, Massachusetts, USA
What Mark said, absolutely. I change the gear fluid on my Britbikes every year, it usually comes out a little milky despite dry storage and mostly dry running conditions.


Kurt
1968-70-71 Triumph TR6R Bitsa - 1969 Triumph TR6R - 1971 BSA A65L - 1973 Triumph TR5T
2005 Ducati MTS 1000S DS - 2012 Ducati Hyper 796 - 2014 Kawasaki ZX1000
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Mr Mike] #557621
08/09/14 9:49 pm
08/09/14 9:49 pm
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,972
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

BritBike Forum member
DavidP  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,972
Gnashville
Originally Posted By: Mr Mike
How often do you change it in the rear differential of your car?

Mr Mike

Every 30,000 miles, got the 17mm hex key to prove it.
However, as Mark said, our gearboxes tend to admit water, especially with the vented nylon cap.
I think I've solved this problem by drilling a vent hole near the top of my inner cover and using an O ring on the cap. Still, I shall change the oil at least once per season.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #735546
05/16/18 3:00 pm
05/16/18 3:00 pm
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
B
Benny Offline
BritBike Forum member
Benny  Offline
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 6
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Rob Barker
Hi All. I can't seem to get the search engine to come up with answer to this: What kind of oil should I put in the gearbox of my 1970 BSA Thunderbolt? I have a workshop manual that says SAE 50, but the only fifty weight oil I can find is Valvoline "Racing Oil". Is this what I need?

Also: I don't know what was in it before, but when I drained the old oil it came out all creamy and emulsified. I can't imagine that it was water, because it sleeps in a dry garage. If it's just air, is it the fault of the old oil or what?

Rob


Hi,

Can anyone offer a Stateside Brand of Gear oil that would be preferred for my upcoming gear oil dump? I already use VR1 20W50 for engine oil changes, is it OK to use in the trans as well?


1970 A65T Thunderbolt SRM 750 Rework
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Benny] #735551
05/16/18 3:47 pm
05/16/18 3:47 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,809
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,809
Scotland
Hi,

Originally Posted by Benny
Can anyone offer a Stateside Brand of Gear oil that would be preferred for my upcoming gear oil dump? I already use VR1 20W50 for engine oil changes, is it OK to use in the trans as well?

Note "gearbox" and "trans[mission]" are two different things/compartments on a Britbike.

For the gearbox (the collection of gears in the compartment behind the crankcase), I use https://www.redlineoil.com/lightweight-shockproof.

For the (primary) transmission (the chain between the crankshaft and the clutch in the compartment beside the crankcase and gearbox), you have to use engine oil if the crankcase vents through the primary to atmosphere; if it doesn't, I use ATF.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Benny] #735613
05/17/18 2:16 am
05/17/18 2:16 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,404
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Online content
BritBike Forum member
Mark Z  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,404
Owego, NY, USA
Originally Posted by Benny
Hi,

Can anyone offer a Stateside Brand of Gear oil that would be preferred for my upcoming gear oil dump? I already use VR1 20W50 for engine oil changes, is it OK to use in the trans as well?


Benny, read back through the thread. You want 80W90 gear oil in the gearbox. Any good brand will do.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: DavidP] #735625
05/17/18 8:00 am
05/17/18 8:00 am
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 794
Brisbane, Australia
BrizzoBrit Online content

Life member
BrizzoBrit  Online Content

Life member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 794
Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by DavidP

I think I've solved this problem by drilling a vent hole near the top of my inner cover and using an O ring on the cap. Still, I shall change the oil at least once per season.


Good to hear. I was thinking of the same solution as my bike gets ridden in the rain all the time.

I tried the Redline, nice oil, I liked it, bit hard to get here, but when I did a strip I found it had emulsified badly without me knowing. In doing so had turned quite solid and was deposited inside the gearbox, covering the free surfaces where I couldn't really detect it until I stripped the gearbox. It was actually a bit like margarine in consistency. I went back to Castrol EPX (80/90W I think). It emulsifies if water gets in, but I've found it stays quite liquid and anything emulsified drains out OK it seems.

Cheers
Ray


BSA 1969 A65F
BSA 1966 A65H
Triumph 1968 T120
Kawasaki A1R
& too many projects!
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #735628
05/17/18 8:06 am
05/17/18 8:06 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,828
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Allan Gill Offline

BritBike Forum member
Allan Gill  Offline

BritBike Forum member
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,828
Rotherham - S. Yorkshire
Sounds like it’s not breathing properly or getting hot enough.


beerchug
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #735645
05/17/18 12:06 pm
05/17/18 12:06 pm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 470
new jersey usa
P
pushrod tom Offline
BritBike Forum member
pushrod tom  Offline
BritBike Forum member
P
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 470
new jersey usa
I like Valvoline or Mobil 75-90 Synthetic. PRT

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #735693
05/17/18 7:23 pm
05/17/18 7:23 pm
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 339
New Jersey
F
Fetch Offline
BritBike Forum member
Fetch  Offline
BritBike Forum member
F
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 339
New Jersey
Rob, If you look at the service manual that calls for SAE 50 for the gear box, it also says the service schedule is something like 500 miles. Modern lubricants will hold up much better.

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #735700
05/17/18 8:43 pm
05/17/18 8:43 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,803
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
BritBike Forum member
gavin eisler  Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,803
argyll. scotland, uk
EP 90 gear oil will do fine. Change annually


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: gavin eisler] #735726
05/18/18 4:16 am
05/18/18 4:16 am
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 582
Denver CO
J
Jerry Roy Offline
BritBike Forum member
Jerry Roy  Offline
BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 582
Denver CO










Can you find any of these?
Then Bob's your uncle.




ISO VG 220, AGMA 5, SAE 50, 90Wt. Oil

Home
Industrial & Manufacturing Lubricants
Industrial Lubricants By Weight
ISO VG 220, AGMA 5, SAE 50, 90Wt. Oil




Description

ISO VG 220 oils (also known as AGMA 5 oils, SAE 50 oils, and 90WT Gear oils) are applicable in various industrial applications that include gearboxes, hydraulics, compressors, and slideways. Though these classification systems seem confusing and different, they all essentially stand for the same thing - a measured viscosity, or relative oil thickness. In most applications, these oil classifications are interchangeable - however, it is wise to consider OEM specifications to determine which exact lubricant specification is to be used.

ISO VG 220 oil has a midpoint kinematic viscosity of 220 mm2/s, also referred to as centistokes (cSt). The midpoint is derived by taking the average of both the minimum and maximum kinematic viscosities. In the case of ISO VG 220 oil, those numbers are 198 cSt and 242 cSt, respectively. SAE 50W oil has a minimum high-temperature kinematic viscosity of 16.3 mm2/s (cSt). AGMA 5 lubricants have a minimum viscosity of 198 mPa.s and a maximum viscosity of 242 mPa.s. These numbers refer to the standard testing mechanisms used to determine how much resistance to flow (i.e. viscosity) these oils demonstrate.

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #735761
05/18/18 1:38 pm
05/18/18 1:38 pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,322
melbourne florida
B
bodine031 Offline
BritBike Forum member
bodine031  Offline
BritBike Forum member
B
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,322
melbourne florida
Hey Rob !!!! not rocket science, the Valvoline VR-1 goes in the engine oil tank, ATF(Type "F")or Harley Primary oil in the P-case, & Redline V-Twin Shock Proof in the gear box
Enjoy your Beeza!!!

Re: BSA A65 Gearbox Oil [Re: Rob Barker] #735804
05/19/18 12:14 am
05/19/18 12:14 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,753
Aus
N
NickL Offline
BritBike Forum member
NickL  Offline
BritBike Forum member
N
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,753
Aus
Any EP90 90 is fine.




Moderated by  Alan_nc 


Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | "OLD" BritBike Forum | DVD- Manuals & Parts books | BritBike Stickers & Decals
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1