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Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
#734627 05/09/18 2:41 pm
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There has been a lot of discussion on this topic, and nobody has spelled it out, so I thought I might do so.

I have registered at least 8 bikes through Vermont, COMPLETELY LEGALLY.

[Linked Image]

You must have a valid Bill Of Sale to start with, and it MUST include: Date of sale, Seller's name and address, bike's serial number, bike year, make, model & displacement, amount paid, and odometer reading. Or, use the VT form.

I have also used TWO Bills of Sale, one for the frame, and one for the engine, in the case of a Triton.

VT registration application - http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VD-119-Vehicle_Reg_Tax_Title_App.pdf
Instructions - http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VD-119i-Registration_App_Instructions.pdf
Bill Of Sale - http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/files/documents/VT-005-Bill_Of_Sale_Odometer_Cert_0.pdf

Take a clear photo of the bike from the side, as close as you can to get the whole bike in the shot, and rotate the camera frame horizontal so there's not a lot of background above or below. USE THE "BEFORE" PHOTO(S) IF BASKET CASE!

Go to NADA website, select the year & model, find the bike's value, and print out the sheet - http://www.nadaguides.com/Motorcycles

I have at times included a detailed statement challenging the NADA value, based on the fact that certain bikes were obtained as rough basket cases or incomplete, rusty rollers. I was successful by simply extrapolating the lower value based on NADA's values for "Average", Good", and "Excellent", and keeping that number reasonably close to the lowest NADA price if there was a big gap from purchase price to NADA value.

Take the bike to whichever of these will perform the VIN check and sign the VT form, and can provide you with the inspector's statement on their letterhead - state vehicle safety inspection station, police department, highway patrol station, DMV, County Tax Assessor's office, etc.

I have a local State vehicle inspection station that has done dozens of inspections for me over the years; I provide their "letterhead" that I made myself with their shop's logo and address info at the top, a single-sentence statement, and a signature line. Took me 5 minutes to produce with MS Word.

Calculate the tax, add it to the registration fee, and include that amount in a check or money order with the forms, photo, and print-outs, and mail it off WITH CORRECT POSTAGE!

Done.

In about 2 weeks, you get the registration receipt, sometimes same time you get the plate. In a couple more days you get the registration card and a little sticker to put on the plate (not sure why they don't send the whole mess at once, they just don't)

Never worry about buying an untitled motorcycle again, as long as you know the seller is legit, and you can come back to him in a pinch. I've found life is easier if I simply never worry.

Last edited by GrandPaul; 05/09/18 2:43 pm.

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Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #735010 05/12/18 3:07 pm
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Out of curiosity, can you register old automobiles the same way?


1967 A65 Lightning
1967 Moto Guzzi V7
1969 B44 Victor Special
1966? Royal Enfield Interceptor
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #735048 05/12/18 9:28 pm
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This is what Wisconsin has changed to, http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/news/h...rocess-eased-for-barn-finds-and-jalopies BUT and that is a HELLASOUS BUT, motorcycles are treated different.
After taking photos of the frame, serial number, copy of bill of sale and buying a title bond, they sent it back, saying I have to have the bike completed and inspected by the State Patrol.
The D.M.V. did say that the frame was not reported stolen, so I should not have a problem when it is done, but it will be titled as a HOME BUILT, not a Norton.
I am using a stock Norton frame to replace one that had been cut for a bobber. OH well. I can still ride it, but I wonder how the Insurance will look at it.

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #735108 05/13/18 11:25 am
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franko,
Does the Wisconsin DMV then register the bike under it's original factory serial numbers, or does the DMV
insist on stamping THEIR OWN numbers all over everything, thus ruining the bike's collector value?

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #735109 05/13/18 11:25 am
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franko,
Does the Wisconsin DMV then register the bike under it's original factory serial numbers, or does the DMV
insist on stamping THEIR OWN numbers all over everything, thus ruining the bike's collector value?

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
Irish Swede #735192 05/14/18 3:14 am
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As far as I know, it is under the factory numbers. I will let you know when I finish the bike and have the new title in my hand.

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #736475 05/24/18 10:47 pm
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I just wanted to update GPs thread, because this is an excellent resource for anyone trying to title an untitled bike. I just received my license plate in the mail today, so I guess it was a success. About the only differences I had from GP's methods were that I called the Vermont DMV to get the amount of money I owed them, that way there would be no discrepancy/refund/demands for more money. I also didn't give them a picture of the bike. Other than that, it was a breeze.


Josh
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
JD #736488 05/25/18 12:57 am
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Originally Posted by JD
I called the Vermont DMV to get the amount of money I owed them, that way there would be no discrepancy/refund/demands for more money. I also didn't give them a picture of the bike.

I've called them before too, long wait time. Still, great idea.

On the photo thing, probably no photo needed unless you want to make a case for lower than NADA value due to very rough/basket case condition, as I did (successfully).

Last edited by GrandPaul; 05/25/18 12:58 am.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
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Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #757995 12/03/18 7:50 pm
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This ought to be a sticky topic, I get PMs on it almost weekly...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758060 12/04/18 2:23 am
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the problem is getting the vin check. one cant get a vin check in Ct without getting a full safety inspection. meaning the bike has to be built before one finds out if the frame is stolen. used to be a breeze not too long ago. it still is for some bikes , but for some reason anything older than 1980 is an issue.

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
hacksaw #758069 12/04/18 3:17 am
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Originally Posted by hacksaw
the problem is getting the vin check. one cant get a vin check in Ct without getting a full safety inspection. meaning the bike has to be built before one finds out if the frame is stolen. used to be a breeze not too long ago. it still is for some bikes , but for some reason anything older than 1980 is an issue.

In that case, ask at your title & licensing office (in Texas, it is the county tax collector) who they require to inspect VIN numbers; it will either be the local Police, County police or State troopers. Here in Laredo, it is the local PD, and they require an appointment for Wednesday -only visual inspections. Whichever one it is, will be authorized to inspect the VIN for you in the case of the VT application process.

Last edited by GrandPaul; 12/04/18 3:17 am.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
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Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758074 12/04/18 4:00 am
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Haven't tried this personally but would expect some adverse reaction if I approached my local PD with a request to inspect the VIN # for VT licensing authority.
Likely they would ask--why not license in NJ?
Answer is obvious to us but probably not to them?
If I said because NJ is a crazy state to get a title in I can imagine that cooperation would not be forthcoming.
GP--what reason do you give your local PD as to why you want the VIN # inspected?
Hoping to use this system soon so my questions are genuine--not trying to be an awkward bast**d.

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758090 12/04/18 11:26 am
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Tridentman- I've been able to call or walk into my NC title and theft office and tell them that I'm looking at such and such bike VIN # xyz and ask them to run the numbers to see if I'll be purchasing stolen property. They have never refused me.

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
Tridentman #758105 12/04/18 2:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Tridentman
GP--what reason do you give your local PD as to why you want the VIN # inspected?

In my case, Texas State Vehicle Inspection stations don't ask questions, they just do the inspection, sign the form, and ask for payment.

Not to mention my neighborhood SVI station is less than 1/2 mile away, and the guy has been doing my motorcycle inspections (for annual Texas renewals, and VT applications) for over 10 years. I have used other stations when the neighborhood guy is out of town (they have no backup inspector), and none of the other 3 stations I've used have ever asked, either.

I would simply tell them "because they're requiring it for my application".

Mike's routine sounds totally cool.

Last edited by GrandPaul; 12/04/18 2:54 pm.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
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Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758108 12/04/18 3:23 pm
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Tridentman,
My local chapter of the Fraternal Order of Police accepts associate members. I am one (its good for a number of reasons). The head of the chapter is a gun guy who appreciates the difficulties NJ imposes on a lot of things. The local chief is a bike guy. They had no problems signing off on the bikes for me. You want to talk to local cops that are bike guys to pave the way for you with the local chief first. Also, don't ask younger cops. They will just view this as washing a title.
Finally, the only thing you need from the locals as I recall, is verification that the serial number on the machine is indeed the same as what you are putting on the application. So, simply tell the locals that you would like them to examine a bike and run its number to make sure it is not stolen. When they do that, have them verify the number in person, and then write a letter "to whom it may concern" explaining that they have examined the bike in question, the serial number is xxx, and it is not stolen. Vermont will probably run the serial number anyway, but they will likely accept the confirmation of the number.

Ed from NJ


Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
edunham #758111 12/04/18 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by edunham
...have them verify the number in person, and then write a letter "to whom it may concern" explaining that they have examined the bike in question, the serial number is xxx, and it is not stolen.

The VT form is all you need. The local signs it stating exactly those facts, after visually examining the frame stamp, and running the 50-state check.

Last edited by GrandPaul; 12/04/18 3:38 pm.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758124 12/04/18 5:43 pm
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About 7 years ago I bought a pickup load of Triumph parts, described as a motorcycle. I wanted the engine for parts, so the other stuff was extra stuff. Got it home and it turned out that I had the remains of 1969 T120R hardtail. The frame and engine numbers matched. The bike had been a 'poor man's' hardtail. The rear frame was cut off and the shocks were replaced with steel bars, a real pinnacle of engineering. Anyway, the engine, front frame, other parts and my extra parts in the basement pretty compromised a majority of a 1969 T120R, but I had no title. I looked at the web for Vermont and the Virginia DMV site for title information. One day I got on the phone and called VA DMV. I wound up talking a number of people and was routed to an investigator. He explained DMV's concerns and procedures and asked me to send the pertinent information, etc. To make a long story short he arrived in person, inspected the parts, my records and issued a VA tile that arrived two days later in the mail. My cost was around $225 the included fees and the cost for his travel from Richmond and inspection. Sometimes it just requires talking to the right individuals in an organization.

Attached Files 1969a.jpg
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
wildbill #758126 12/04/18 6:02 pm
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Originally Posted by wildbill
To make a long story short he arrived in person, inspected the parts, my records and issued a VA tile that arrived two days later in the mail. My cost was around $225 the included fees and the cost for his travel from Richmond and inspection. Sometimes it just requires talking to the right individuals in an organization.

Now THAT is a great story.

In Texas (well, maybe not in certain bigger cities, but definitely in Laredo), I must do pretty much all the same as required for VT, but the inspection can ONLY be done by local PD on a by-appointment on wednesdays only basis. Then there are a couple of additional forms listing major component purchase receipts and work done to build the bike to roadworthy condition.

Then, a complete packet needs to be submitted with a $15 money order, and sent to a regional district TxDMV facility 180 miles away. Next, wait 90 days. Then, you get a call telling you to show up, sign more papers, then pay the fees & taxes at 6.5%.

So, for me, a bit more work, a lot more waiting, and a few more dollars. Not worth it just to sell a bike that will get re-titled in another state.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758142 12/04/18 7:35 pm
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Grandpaul,
The issue that Tridentman was concerned about, I think, is that if you take the Vermont form to your average cop shop here in NJ, they are going to look at it as an illegal attempt at washing a title, refuse to do it, and possibly refer the matter to the county prosecutor. While the prosecutor is unlikely to do anything it would be a hassle. And because NJ has a method for obtaining titles, as cumbersome as it may be, the bureaucrats have an argument. Hence my point, that, at least in NJ, you are better off first having someone "pave" the way. And if you don't have that, try the letter approach.

Ed from NJ

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758145 12/04/18 7:58 pm
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Do people really have the (whatever) to walk into a police station and request assistance in illegally obtaining titles?

Yikes.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758181 12/05/18 12:41 am
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GP---Ed has described exactly my concern.
There is in NJ no fully legal way to title a bike which does not have one if you bought the untitled bike in NJ.
The quasi legal methods involve "selling" the bike to someone in a state where bikes of that vintage were not titled and then "buying" it from the guy/organization in that state.
This is what the titling agencies do.

So much for governments working on behalf of the people!

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
Tridentman #758183 12/05/18 1:12 am
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Originally Posted by Tridentman


So much for governments working on behalf of the people!



We can all thank the thieves among us for that, unfortunately.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
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1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


"Every time I listen to AC/DC, so do my neighbors"

Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
Tridentman #758186 12/05/18 1:29 am
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Originally Posted by Tridentman
There is in NJ no fully legal way to title a bike which does not have one if you bought the untitled bike in NJ.

I wouldn't give it a second thought, and simply proceed to petition your local Police Dept. to assist with the frame serial number check to "avoid buying a stolen bike". You would not be lying, and they may be quite gracious. Worst they can do is say "no", in which case I would go up the ladder to the county sheriff's office, then to the State troopers office if no joy.

Absolute worst-case scenario, if it's worth it, and if the bike is still apart, ship the frame to me, I'll do the whole VT thing for you at my cost. Merry Christmas.

(you can send a frame on Greyhound or even USPS for under $100.)

Last edited by GrandPaul; 12/05/18 1:30 am.

GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, a BSA, & some Japanese
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758190 12/05/18 2:07 am
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I took my Norton, which I purchased in SC, to my local state trooper barracks, went in and told them I would like to do a VIN check. I gave the trooper the form, he came out to my truck, I read him the VIN, and he signed off on it. I had to ask him to actually run the VIN through their database to make sure it wasn't stolen. Very friendly. He never knew from where the bike was purchased, and I live in Maryland-almost as bad as NJ. In fact, the guy at the Maryland DMV told me that it was next to impossible to obtain a title for a vehicle without one. He even suggested I do it through VT (unofficially, of course) although I had the paperwork already finished.


Josh
Re: Obtaining a LEGAL Vermont registration
GrandPaul #758194 12/05/18 3:14 am
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Sounds like time for me to cozy up with the local cops.
They already know me as "The crazy Englishman with the old bikes" so that is maybe a good starting point.
Many thanks for all the inputs on this thread.

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