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Brake cable help #733292
04/27/18 3:57 pm
04/27/18 3:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
MikeG  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
I'm in need of a new rear brake cable for my swingarm A10 and can't quite identify what I have. By the frame number it's a 1960 GA7104***. The bike has full width iron hubs ( Triumph type?) with the actuator arm facing downward. The original cable measures:

housing-12 7/8 inch long
inner cable-19 1/2 inches long with a clevis on the drum end and a ball on the other
The threaded adjuster sleeve has a knurled head and a small hex jamb nut, and the small nut is important.

I have a few spare cables kicking around that are either too long, or the adjuster sleeve has too large a jamb nut that won't allow it to adjust all the way in without contacting the threaded boss, or both. Everything I've found on the web seems to either have the incorrect adjuster or they don't give measurements, and they list the cable as fitting all swingarm models 57 thru 62. I can't get much help from my parts book either, as the only one shown has a ball on each end and no clevis. Any ideas on what I need or what I have? Even a correct BSA part number would be helpful.
Thanks


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

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Re: Brake cable help [Re: MikeG] #733302
04/27/18 7:20 pm
04/27/18 7:20 pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,500
melbourne florida
B
bodine031 Online content
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bodine031  Online Content
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B

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,500
melbourne florida
Send yours to Barnett Clutch & Cable they will make you one.

Re: Brake cable help [Re: MikeG] #733310
04/27/18 10:15 pm
04/27/18 10:15 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
BritBike Forum member
chaterlea25  Offline
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
Hi Mike,
Yes its better to get one made to the original pattern
All the repro ones are too long, resulting in a spongy action
I lent an original 61 cable to a guy last week so he could get it copied,
make sure the outer cable has a direct as possible line between the anchors

John

Re: Brake cable help [Re: bodine031] #733315
04/27/18 10:27 pm
04/27/18 10:27 pm
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,951
Ohio
R
Rickman Offline
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Rickman  Offline
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R

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,951
Ohio
Mike,
I am fairly certain the ball at both ends is for use with the Ariel wheel....
... I do not know if the backing plate brake arm is interchangeable ...

Would you care for me to measure all the cables I have? They are ball at the forward end, clevis at the rear....
But I already know one of the cables has a knurled nut instead of the hex nut, this is on an over the axle backing plate...

....Uhm, why do you think your cable is too long?

May I ask how far off the backing plate your adjustor mount center is? And if the mount is an extension of a brake stay fastener?

..... I wonder if your backing plate and cable are from an earlier year?

Re: Brake cable help [Re: Rickman] #733327
04/28/18 12:17 am
04/28/18 12:17 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
MikeG  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
Originally Posted by Rickman
Mike,

....Uhm, why do you think your cable is too long?

All the spares I have are too long. My original broke, but I'm not too sure of it's origin either, it could be an old aftermarket one as the clevis is not an actual cable end but a U shaped steel formed one that was put on before a small ball end was soldered to the cable'


May I ask how far off the backing plate your adjustor mount center is? And if the mount is an extension of a brake stay fastener?

The adjuster mount is part of the brake stay...not sure how far off the face of the hub it is as I'm not by the bike now, but I don't believe my hub /brake is mix and match. Just a guess though.

..... I wonder if your backing plate and cable are from an earlier year?


I did find a Doherty cable at Steadfast Cycles with the smaller knurled jamb nut and an outer sheath length listed at just 5/8 of an inch longer than what I have. As long as the inner cable is not too long, between the adjuster and possibly moving the lever on the cross shaft a spline or two I should be OK. Worst case scenario I just shorten the cable and resolder the end on.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Brake cable help [Re: MikeG] #734422
05/07/18 7:44 pm
05/07/18 7:44 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
MikeG  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
Originally Posted by MikeG
Originally Posted by Rickman
Mike,

....Uhm, why do you think your cable is too long?

All the spares I have are too long. My original broke, but I'm not too sure of it's origin either, it could be an old aftermarket one as the clevis is not an actual cable end but a U shaped steel formed one that was put on before a small ball end was soldered to the cable'


May I ask how far off the backing plate your adjustor mount center is? And if the mount is an extension of a brake stay fastener?

The adjuster mount is part of the brake stay...not sure how far off the face of the hub it is as I'm not by the bike now, but I don't believe my hub /brake is mix and match. Just a guess though.

..... I wonder if your backing plate and cable are from an earlier year?


I did find a Doherty cable at Steadfast Cycles with the smaller knurled jamb nut and an outer sheath length listed at just 5/8 of an inch longer than what I have. As long as the inner cable is not too long, between the adjuster and possibly moving the lever on the cross shaft a spline or two I should be OK. Worst case scenario I just shorten the cable and resolder the end on.


An update then.....yes, the Doherty cables you see on eBay ect. are too long. The outer housing from the new one I got was OK but the adjuster was incorrect and the inner cable too long by about 2 inches. Easy enough to unsolder the ball end, change the adjuster and cut the cable to correct length and re-solder the end on. Just have to remember to leave enough extra cable to allow for rear chain adjustment.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Brake cable help [Re: MikeG] #734423
05/07/18 9:05 pm
05/07/18 9:05 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
BritBike Forum member
chaterlea25  Offline
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
Hi Mike,
Quote
The bike has full width iron hubs ( Triumph type?) with the actuator arm facing downward.


Quote
Just have to remember to leave enough extra cable to allow for rear chain adjustment.



As the cable adjuster anchor is at the end of the torque arm, it does not move when the wheel position is changed
(the earlier version with the upwards arm does move)

John

Re: Brake cable help [Re: MikeG] #734511
05/08/18 4:03 pm
05/08/18 4:03 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
MikeG  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
John-I was more concerned with the overall length of the inner cable. My chain is new so the wheel is almost as far forward as it can go. The temptation to make the cable as short as possible by moving the actuator arm on the drum till the brake was almost full applied and then allowing just a bit of cable slack to back the brake off a bit almost got me. If the inner cable is too short no amount of adjustment on the outer sheath will allow the wheel to move backward without stretching the cable or moving the cross shaft arm on the splines.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Brake cable help [Re: MikeG] #734553
05/08/18 10:46 pm
05/08/18 10:46 pm
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
C
chaterlea25 Offline
BritBike Forum member
chaterlea25  Offline
BritBike Forum member
C

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 477
Cork Ireland
Hi Mike,
????
Surely the distance from cable anchor to the brake drum arm does not change with wheel position
Ok the brake plate rotates a few degrees as the wheel is moved but the distance is constant

Originally the rear brake linings on the A10's is thicker than most replacement linings or pattern shoes (cannot remember the figures)
This completely upsets the actuating arm angle to the cable
To compensate for non original thickness lining thickness , the best method is to get custom oversize linings fitted and machine to drum size
Bodging is another way !!!
The arm to cable angle should be a bit less than 90 deg as the shoes rub,
The angle of the cross over shaft lever should be approx 90 at the same time
Taking the time to get these angles correct and the cable outer as "straight" as possible improves the rear brake hugely

John

Re: Brake cable help [Re: MikeG] #734630
05/09/18 2:55 pm
05/09/18 2:55 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
MikeG  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,766
New Hampshier USA
Hi John-My concern was with the inner cable length between the actuator lever on the splined shaft and the actuator lever on the drum, not between the rear anchor and rear lever. If it was made so that the cable is as short as possible with adjuster screwed all the way in, and all possible travel on the rear drum lever taken up just to the point of shoe contact with the drum, then any rearward motion of the wheel/drum to adjust the chain will start to apply the brake. That's how I figured it anyway, but my thinking could be wrong. If the inner cable was too short it could be compensated for by moving the front lever on the splined shaft, but as you state it can change the angle between the arm and cable.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville


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