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CNW electric start #717916
12/06/17 2:47 pm
12/06/17 2:47 pm
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 966
Ontario Canada
Don Leaming Offline OP
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Don Leaming  Offline OP
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Posts: 966
Ontario Canada
I would be interested in hearing real world reports on this starter on your Commando. Specifically thinking of extended use on a regular rider now that they have been available for a while. ... Any problems?
Thanks
Don


1965 Royal Enfield Interceptor
1969 Triumph Tiger 650
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Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #718124
12/08/17 2:09 pm
12/08/17 2:09 pm
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 704
West Virginia, United States
Beach Offline

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Beach  Offline

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West Virginia, United States
You might check on Accessnorton site. Lots of info there on this starter.


Bill
1974 Norton Commando
1966 Lightning
1965 Lightning Rocket
1966 Norton Atlas
1967 Norton Atlas
1948 Panhead
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #718150
12/08/17 7:16 pm
12/08/17 7:16 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,977
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I haven't heard a single report on a CNW e-start issue on AccessNorton.Com, here, or several facebook Norton/Commando forums.

Nothing but very happy owners.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #718153
12/08/17 7:50 pm
12/08/17 7:50 pm
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,113
Ottawa, Canada
gREgg-K Offline

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Ottawa, Canada
I wonder how many of the CNW starter kits are installed on road bikes and have been in use on a regular basis? It would be nice to know that a bullet-proof starter update solution is now available.

.. Gregg


Spyder Integrated Technologies
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Re: CNW electric start [Re: gREgg-K] #718165
12/08/17 9:19 pm
12/08/17 9:19 pm
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 114
Wolverhampton, U.K
S
Simon Ratcliff Offline
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Simon Ratcliff  Offline
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Posts: 114
Wolverhampton, U.K
I agree, most classics see very little use.


Norton Mk3 Commando.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #731740
04/12/18 10:07 pm
04/12/18 10:07 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,464
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Offline

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Offline

Moto Mojo
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,464
Pennsyltuckey
You might check with "Dyno" Dave Commeau. Pretty sure he has a starter for Commandos

Hmm looks like MKIII only?

Dyno Dave Commeau WEBSITE


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #731752
04/13/18 1:08 am
04/13/18 1:08 am
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 734
Orlando fla/ shady valley Tn
B
bill50cal Online content
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Posts: 734
Orlando fla/ shady valley Tn
the test bike was stan keys daily rider and talking to john at sts that makes them for CNW, for 1 year he would turn off the bike at every stop light and restart it. also looking at the workings of it it is a well made piece of kit. as GP also stated there has not been 1 complaint with the unit on the other forums.


windy
72 combat
switchbackcreek.com
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #731786
04/13/18 2:01 pm
04/13/18 2:01 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Central Virginia
On the other hand, I haven't had any complaints to date about the STOCK starter on my MkIII, so there's that .... It does have a heavy-gauge direct ground connection, but you've got to do that on any vintage electric non-Japanese electric start bike - Brits, Guzzis, Harleys, etc ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: ricochetrider] #731788
04/13/18 2:16 pm
04/13/18 2:16 pm
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,113
Ottawa, Canada
gREgg-K Offline

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gREgg-K  Offline

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Ottawa, Canada
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
You might check with "Dyno" Dave Commeau. Pretty sure he has a starter for Commandos

Hmm looks like MKIII only?
[/url]


Correct: Dave's been making that starter for several years, but it is just that: the starter only, made to replace the stock part found in the MKIII.
The other thing to observe with any e-Start bike (and especially the MKIII) is to ensure you have a beefy battery that is fully charged.

.. Gregg

Last edited by gREgg-K; 04/13/18 2:18 pm.

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Re: CNW electric start [Re: ] #731811
04/13/18 6:20 pm
04/13/18 6:20 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Charles DB
Stock starters are notoriously weak. Cold engine with good valve and piston ring sealing and a chilly morning usually means the starter wont turn the engine enough to fire. Norton knew this, that's why in the riders info booklet that came with a new bike they recommended using the starter in conjunction with the kickstart. Just another nail in the coffin.


I hear that a lot, but my stock starter will spin the engine just fine with no hesitation, and spin it faster than I can kick it. Cold or hot, with 20W/50 oil.

So they must not all be like that.

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: gREgg-K] #731813
04/13/18 6:27 pm
04/13/18 6:27 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Central Virginia
Originally Posted by gREgg-K
Originally Posted by ricochetrider
You might check with "Dyno" Dave Commeau. Pretty sure he has a starter for Commandos

Hmm looks like MKIII only?
[/url]


Correct: Dave's been making that starter for several years, but it is just that: the starter only, made to replace the stock part found in the MKIII.
The other thing to observe with any e-Start bike (and especially the MKIII) is to ensure you have a beefy battery that is fully charged.

.. Gregg


That last part is what I suspect gets most people.

Many many years on bike lists have convinced me of two things:

1) Nobody EVER wants to believe that their problem is the battery, whether it's starting, ignition, or whatever. The battery's just a block of plastic, nothing can go wrong with that, besides, I just spent $60 last year on it, so it CAN'T be the problem.

2) Ninety percent of bike electrical problems that are not the battery, are a bad ground. Nine times out of ten. But no one ever checks the grounds first, it's only after a lot of on-line trouble shooting.

3) People will spend a fortune on tools and widgets and gadgets to help them enjoy fettling and riding. One thing that hardly ANYONE ever buys is a Battery Load Tester. They will stick the pair of VOM probes across the battery and say "I got 12 volts, it's good", not knowing that a 12V battery showing 12.0 volts is deader than a hammer. OR they say "I got 12.7 volts, it's good" never testing whether the battery will actually supply any CURRENT at 12.7 volts.

It just amazes me how few people actually invest $90 in a tool that will instantly tell them if the problem is the battery or is it not the battery, so they can either buy a new one (even if they just bought one last year) or move on to something else .... ?

I suspect that I will continue to be "amazed" by all that for the next 20 years, or whenever I decide "I guess I've said this enough ... "!

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Lannis] #731815
04/13/18 6:38 pm
04/13/18 6:38 pm
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,113
Ottawa, Canada
gREgg-K Offline

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Posts: 1,113
Ottawa, Canada
You are of course correct, Lannis ... duff batteries are very often the source of electrical problems, and I've run into an increasing incidence of them over the past few years. Most often, they have poor or intermittent connections between the cells. And, along the lines of "a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing...", a VOM in the wrong hands can be a terrible thing.

.. Gregg


Spyder Integrated Technologies
Lucas, BTH, & Miller Magneto & Dynamo Restoration
SMITHS Chronometric Restoration
magneto@spyder-it.com
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #731825
04/13/18 8:38 pm
04/13/18 8:38 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,305
Magnolia, TX
htown Online content
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htown  Online Content
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,305
Magnolia, TX
Second after batteries has to be ignition switches. Over the last 15 years every Brit bike I have had to replace the switch at least once and some of them 2 or 3 times. Doesn't matter if the box for the replacement says Lucas or not. Always the same symptoms, random hard starting and poor running at lower revs.


1978 Bonneville T140E
1974 Trident
1970 BSA Thunderbolt
1971 Norton Commando
1972 Norton Commando
1973 Norton Commando
1974 Norton Commando
2004 XL 1200R Sportster

Everything will be alright in the end. If its not alright, its not the end.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #731849
04/14/18 1:55 am
04/14/18 1:55 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,590
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline
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Richrd  Offline
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Posts: 2,590
Springfield Nebraska
Lannie's bike also has 6 gauge battery cables.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: CNW electric start [Re: ] #731869
04/14/18 1:49 pm
04/14/18 1:49 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Charles DB
Originally Posted by Lannis

It just amazes me how few people actually invest $90 in a tool that will instantly tell them if the problem is the battery or is it not the battery, so they can either buy a new one (even if they just bought one last year) or move on to something else .... ?
Lannis



Guilty! I have lots of tools but never owned a battery load tester. What's your opinion on this http://www.gunson.co.uk/product/G4184 ?

Also is there a tool available which will dynamically load a wire (put a voltage through it) and double up as battery tester?



I can only say that the one I bought at the NAPA tool department looks very much like that one, has the same specs and features, and cost the same (your £77 vs. my $100) ... and mine's been used for years and still like new.

ANY electrical question on ANY vehicle from a lawnmower to a tractor to a motorcycle, this is the first thing I pull down off the wall - clip it to the battery, throw the load switch and hold it for 10 seconds, and there is NO DOUBT about whether the battery is a problem or not!

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Richrd] #731871
04/14/18 1:53 pm
04/14/18 1:53 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Richrd
Lannie's bike also has 6 gauge battery cables.


There's that, too. It's like on my Guzzis - the companies that make these bikes always go with the minimal cable size, presumably to save on the cost of copper.

Upgrading to the "right" size, which is pretty cheap, fixes most all the problems. And if it doesn't, well, at least you know that any problems you have are because something's broken, and not because the electrons are choked down in a wire that's too small!

I'm happy with my stock starter - and if (or when, it's mechanical after all) the sprag clutch shatters, time enough to upgrade then ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #731895
04/14/18 8:05 pm
04/14/18 8:05 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,162
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Online content
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Andy Higham  Online Content
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A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,162
Bolton Lancs UK
A low battery / slow turning can cause a backfire.
At least Norton fitted a ball clutch to protect the sprag in the event of a backfire


1955 BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350
1967 Greeves 360 Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Andy Higham] #731919
04/15/18 1:31 am
04/15/18 1:31 am
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,113
Ottawa, Canada
gREgg-K Offline

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gREgg-K  Offline

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Posts: 1,113
Ottawa, Canada
Originally Posted by Andy Higham
A low battery / slow turning can cause a backfire.
At least Norton fitted a ball clutch to protect the sprag in the event of a backfire

Ah yes, something to keep in mind with the MKIII e-Start. The ball clutch is supposed to 'slip' at around 50 lb-ft. On my most recent MKIII, some bright lad had taken this to mean that the assembly nut on the ball clutch should be torqued to 50 lb-ft ... resulting in the device becoming completely locked up and unable to slip. Of course, this did not become obvious until a backfire trashed the sprag ...

I machined a splined tool to test the slip point of the ball clutch, something every MKIII should have done.

.. Gregg


Spyder Integrated Technologies
Lucas, BTH, & Miller Magneto & Dynamo Restoration
SMITHS Chronometric Restoration
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Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #731971
04/15/18 5:12 pm
04/15/18 5:12 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Central Virginia
I looked at the specs, and I'm not sure what all it does ... a bit too much "Engrish", things like "power injection" and "ground heat", maybe it's me but I don't know how to translate those.

Three things that I think are useful, I'm not sure if this device does them or not:

1) A diode tester, to see if a diode is flowing current properly, although you can sort of "thumbnail" it with an ohmmeter.

2) A device that you can lay up along the spark plug wire and see if it's sparking under compression without pulling the plug.

3) An induction tachometer that can tell you engine RPMs the same way ....

Lannis

Last edited by Lannis; 04/15/18 5:12 pm.

I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Don Leaming] #731991
04/15/18 8:58 pm
04/15/18 8:58 pm
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 628
Isle of Wight, UK
K
koan58 Offline
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koan58  Offline
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K
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 628
Isle of Wight, UK
Isn't that what a multimeter does, or even a battery and bulb? Why do you need to spend so much?

Re: CNW electric start [Re: koan58] #732019
04/16/18 1:35 am
04/16/18 1:35 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by koan58
Isn't that what a multimeter does, or even a battery and bulb? Why do you need to spend so much?


It sounds like the tool can act as a power supply, putting a fused 12 volts across a connection to test it, without having to rig up jumpers, a fuse, and a battery.

Can't say I've ever needed one, but you never know.

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: Lannis] #732039
04/16/18 7:02 am
04/16/18 7:02 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,975
Scotland
S
Stuart Online content
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Stuart  Online Content
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Posts: 9,975
Scotland
Hi Lannis, Charles,

Originally Posted by Lannis
It sounds like the tool can act as a power supply, putting a fused 12 volts across a connection to test it, without having to rig up jumpers, a fuse, and a battery.

Originally Posted by Charles DB
That is my understanding as well.

Mmmm ... not really, they all have to be connected to a battery.

An Ohm- or multi-meter set to Ohms makes a circuit with whatever's between the ends of the meter leads, just the Amps aren't that great because the meter's internal battery is necessarily small. The problem there can be that a nearly-broken wire will show as (near-) zero Ohms but when the wire is asked to carry several Amps, it fails. frown To check for the nearly-broken wire, you have to connect the component into a circuit with a battery and Ammeter.

Because they're connected to an external battery, the gadgets will do the same. However, I started to read the instructions for the Sealey, they might be clearer with the gadget in your hand but, frankly, the possibility of letting the smoke out of an expensive gadget by moving a switch the wrong way for a given "polarity" seemed rather too real. I'm with Dave on this one, 'fraid imho these are an expensive solution in search of a problem.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: CNW electric start [Re: Lannis] #732185
04/17/18 3:29 pm
04/17/18 3:29 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 543
belgium
ludwig Offline
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ludwig  Offline
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Posts: 543
belgium
Originally Posted by Lannis

Many many years on bike lists have convinced me of two things:
1) Nobody EVER wants to believe that their problem is the battery, whether it's starting, ignition, or whatever. The battery's just a block of plastic, nothing can go wrong with that, besides, I just spent $60 last year on it, so it CAN'T be the problem.
2) Ninety percent of bike electrical problems that are not the battery, are a bad ground. Nine times out of ten. But no one ever checks the grounds first, it's only after a lot of on-line trouble shooting.
3) People will spend a fortune on tools and widgets and gadgets to help them enjoy fettling and riding. One thing that hardly ANYONE ever buys is a Battery Load Tester. They will stick the pair of VOM probes across the battery and say "I got 12 volts, it's good", not knowing that a 12V battery showing 12.0 volts is deader than a hammer. OR they say "I got 12.7 volts, it's good" never testing whether the battery will actually supply any CURRENT at 12.7 volts.
It just amazes me how few people actually invest $90 in a tool that will instantly tell them if the problem is the battery or is it not the battery, so they can either buy a new one (even if they just bought one last year) or move on to something else .... ?
I suspect that I will continue to be "amazed" by all that for the next 20 years, or whenever I decide "I guess I've said this enough ... "!


Yes .. classic bike owners are notoriously stupid .
Nice to see wise men devoting all their time on forums to enlighten us ..

Last edited by ludwig; 04/17/18 7:59 pm.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: ] #732290
04/18/18 11:52 am
04/18/18 11:52 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Lannis Online content

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Posts: 12,845
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Charles DB
Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the advice. I was aware the devices require an external battery for voltage. The appeal to me is the ease of use in powering up components, sections of circuits, earths. The KM10 and Sealey both have circuit breakers. They do look similar but price of the KM10 is approx. half that of the Sealey. I would not be surprised if they are manufactured in the same factory. I'm going to splash out £54 on a KM10 and I'll post how I get on with it. If it means I can find solutions to electrical problems quicker than usual it will be money well spent.


And we'll need a "User Report" when you get it ... could be the start of a new trend. OR the start of "glad he spent the money and I didn't have to .... !! laughing

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: CNW electric start [Re: ] #732315
04/18/18 5:27 pm
04/18/18 5:27 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 543
belgium
ludwig Offline
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ludwig  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 543
belgium
Originally Posted by Charles DB
Surely a case of, 'the pot calling the kettle black' if ever there was one!


But Charles , it was a compliment !
" Honni soit qui mal y pense " , like they say in England .
Only wish I had the time to spend 4 hours a day on forums , dishing out advice ..
Anyway , bike is packed , off to Spain for the next month .

Hasta luego .

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