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Staring a B-50 #729905
03/25/18 6:54 pm
03/25/18 6:54 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
M
Mr Mike Offline OP
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Mr Mike  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
I haven't posted in a few years. Getting pretty old for these old bikes and now have new hobbies. I cleared out things in my shed to get at my B50 that had not been started in a year. I wheeled it into the shop. The battery was down to 7 volts and the oil had all drained to the sump. I drained the oil, put the battery on the charger and finished servicing it in the morning. There was still some old gas in the tank so I thought I'd start it. Years ago I had developed a cold and hot starting procedure for the B50 which needs to be followed religiously for the bike to start easily. Well, i followed the procedure and the bike started on the very first kick after a year bring idle.. I let it idle so all the extra oil in the sump was pumped up to the frame and took it for a ride. I started it hot four times so test my procedure and it started on the first kick three times and one start took two kicks. Bike performed flawlessly on a ten mile ride so I hope to see all my old friends on the Three State Mountain ride in May. I have missed the last two years after making the first 13 or 14 rides.

I hope all you guys I haven't chatted with in a few years are doing well and that you are still scratching the old bike itch.

Cheers,

Mr Mike

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Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #729906
03/25/18 7:02 pm
03/25/18 7:02 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Offline
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gunner  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
Hey Mr Mike, good to hear you are still around and the B50 is running strong, might be worthwhile sharing your starting technique as I'm sure there are plenty who struggle to start unit singles.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #729908
03/25/18 7:04 pm
03/25/18 7:04 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Hot dog! You can show us how it starts at Blowing Rock! Only a few weeks off now ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Lannis] #729910
03/25/18 7:32 pm
03/25/18 7:32 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
M
Mr Mike Offline OP
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Mr Mike  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
Lannis,
You what happens when you brag about a technique....it will certainly jinx me. I can see me at the first TSMR gas stop having to go on the trailer because it won't \start. The B50 can be a cantankerous starter. I have lived through that. I'll see if I have the procedure written down somewhere and post it.

Hope you are doing well Lannis!

Mr Mike

Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #729912
03/25/18 7:40 pm
03/25/18 7:40 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
You know that the number of kicks it takes to start a bike is directly proportional to the number of people watching ....

KTS = m(NPW) +1
where

KTS = Kicks To Start
NPW = Number of people watching
m = a constant related to the bike's state of tune, ranging from 1 for a well-tuned bike to 10 or more for a poorly tuned one.

So if NO ONE is watching (NPW=0) then it'll start on the first kick no matter what state of tune it's in.

If one person is watching, it will take at least 2 kicks, and so on ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Lannis] #729916
03/25/18 7:59 pm
03/25/18 7:59 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,283
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline
fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline
fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,283
ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Lannis
You know that the number of kicks it takes to start a bike is directly proportional to the number of people watching ....


that is completely true.

if you also make the mistake of announcing, " . . . it always starts first kick . . ." then all hope is lost.


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: kevin roberts] #729918
03/25/18 8:23 pm
03/25/18 8:23 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
M
Mr Mike Offline OP
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Mr Mike  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
Gunner,
Here's the procedure. It is a little complicated but easily became my routine for the B50. The B44 is bit easier to start but the same procedure applies to the B44 and B25.


Starting a BSA B50 (cold)
1. Make sure timing is reasonably close to spot on.
2. The carb must be clean. Especially important is the idle mixture jet which is cleaned with a #78 drill wedged in a red WD-40 spray tip. It must be clean!
3. The throttle slide stop screw needs to be screwed in about 1/2 to 3/4 turn. This would be a very fast idle when the bike is warmed up. I welded a knurled post onto the stop screw so I can adjust it with a gloved hand and don’t have to get out a little screwdriver.
4. Liberally flood the carb with the tickler
5. With ignition off, prime the cylinder by kicking over the motor using compression release a couple of times.
6. With ignition still off, ease the motor over TDC using the compression relief. Continue tuning the motor over with the kicker until you feel the springiness of the exhaust valve opening. This is about 70 to 80 degrees past TDC. (This is very important!) It helps give the engine more speed as it goes thru intake and then compression and the extra speed helps it go over TDC.
7. Reset the kicker to the top, turn on the ignition, tickle minimally and give it a real hard kick. Don’t use the decompressor as you are over TDC.
It should start easily. After it warms turn the idle adjustment screw to achieve the desired idle speed.
On a hot start (like after a stall), you really only need follow steps 6 and 7. If the bike sits for about 20 minutes follow steps 3, 6 and 7.
Works for me!!! Unfortunately it took me many years of BSA single ownership to figure this out.

Mr MIke

Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #729930
03/25/18 10:50 pm
03/25/18 10:50 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Offline
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gunner  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 834
Farnham, Surrey, UK
Cheers Mr Mike, I will give it a try, my B44 uses a JRC carb with separate enrichment circuit and starts readily under most conditions. However I have never tried positioning the piston using the valve lifter so will try your technique and see if it helps.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #729931
03/25/18 11:00 pm
03/25/18 11:00 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,283
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Offline
fefsa
kevin roberts  Offline
fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,283
ohio, usa
my 441 wouldn't start worth beans on the Boyer-- the EI wouldn't retard, and so i was trying to kick it at 28 BTDC, which was difficult.

i just put a 6CA in with a condenser and a 12?-degree AAU, and now it starts fairly consistently.

now that it runs, i can practice different starting drills and actually learn something.


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: kevin roberts] #729976
03/26/18 11:57 am
03/26/18 11:57 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
M
Mr Mike Offline OP
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Mr Mike  Offline OP
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M
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
I have never put electronic ignition units on a single. Never saw the advantage. Points/condenser have worked fine. I did put a Boyer on my A65 twin so i do recognize the advantages of both systems. My B44 has always been easier to start than the B50 before I developed the above procedure. Now they start equally well but the higher compression and greater displacement of the b50 require a stronger kick.
Mr Mike

Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #730259
03/29/18 12:07 pm
03/29/18 12:07 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,606
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline
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Richrd  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,606
Springfield Nebraska
This will be the last year fo4 Dixie, the white Norton. But next year will be the new b44. If I can start it.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #730270
03/29/18 1:47 pm
03/29/18 1:47 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

Life member
Lannis  Offline

Life member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,934
Central Virginia
Riding Dixie down the Parkway, then sitting and staring at her lovely, shapely castings, is why I have the TSMR Norton now ... !

Sorry to hear that she's going .... is she Beyond Economical Repair or are you dumping her for a more sexy model ... ?

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Lannis] #730315
03/29/18 9:33 pm
03/29/18 9:33 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,240
Bolton Lancs UK
A
Andy Higham Offline
BritBike Forum member
Andy Higham  Offline
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A
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,240
Bolton Lancs UK
Originally Posted by Lannis
You know that the number of kicks it takes to start a bike is directly proportional to the number of people watching ....

KTS = m(NPW) +1
where

KTS = Kicks To Start
NPW = Number of people watching
m = a constant related to the bike's state of tune, ranging from 1 for a well-tuned bike to 10 or more for a poorly tuned one.

So if NO ONE is watching (NPW=0) then it'll start on the first kick no matter what state of tune it's in.

If one person is watching, it will take at least 2 kicks, and so on ....

Lannis


You have the formula slightly wrong, it should be KTS + m(NPW²)+1 so if one person is watching it will take 2 kicks, 2 people watching it will take 5 kicks, 3 people watching it will take 10 kicks etc


BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360 Challenger
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 OK Supreme
'36 OK Supreme
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #730339
03/30/18 1:21 am
03/30/18 1:21 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,606
Springfield Nebraska
Richrd Offline
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Richrd  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,606
Springfield Nebraska
Its just time to give her an easier life and ride some of the other girls.


Rich (member ThreeMustGetBeers)
"It's not always about going fast. Sometimes it's nice to slow down" (Wendy E.2016)

69 bonney
72 commando
75 commando interstate
06 Suzu..Suzu.. uh appliance
couple of beesas a ducati
and the Snake Bike
and a Honda?
Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #730368
03/30/18 2:13 pm
03/30/18 2:13 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
M
Mr Mike Offline OP
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Mr Mike  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
Richard,
I noticed in my PM (which I haven't looked at in a year) you asked about adapting a Mikuni to a B44. I made a short spigot that bolts right up. I think I pulled the studs and got some bolts with the same thread. The spigot can't be too long if you don't want to modify the frame. The Mik was a smooth running cab but it did not cold start easily and that is why I took it off. Hot starts are a one kick affair.. I have all the jet info if you need it for the Mik I used. Mine is a round slide that idled the bike like a tractor and was very smooth throughout the range.

See you in May.

Mr Mike

Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #730370
03/30/18 3:09 pm
03/30/18 3:09 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,739
New Hampshier USA
MikeG Online content

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MikeG  Online Content

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,739
New Hampshier USA
Glad to hear you're coming back Mr Mike.


1960 BSA A10
2007 Suzuki Bandit
1957 A10
(Used to be a Triumph here)
71 Norton Commando
17 Triumph Bonneville

Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #730581
04/01/18 9:25 pm
04/01/18 9:25 pm
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 493
new jersey usa
P
pushrod tom Online content
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new jersey usa
I would like to extend a grateful HURRAH to Mr. Mike. I got my B44 out of the garage today and, for the first time, used the Mr. Mike Method. Worked like a charm! The bike sat all winter (4 months). The tip about turning the motor to 70 degrees or so was the missing link for me. Last years awakening was brutal. A week of kicking and checking everything got no results. I took it up to see my pal Mario. He is a much large fellow than me so when he kicked it, it listened. Now I am looking forward to get out for some put-putting this spring!! Cheers, PRT

Re: Staring a B-50 [Re: Mr Mike] #731465
04/09/18 5:58 pm
04/09/18 5:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,884
Cape Carteret, NC
M
Mr Mike Offline OP
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Mr Mike  Offline OP
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Cape Carteret, NC
PRT,
Glad the procedure worked for you. I owned BSA singles since 1969 and didn't figure out the best way to start them till I put together my B50 about 10 years ago. I will not own a bike that won't start and my B50 was in that category till I started experimenting. I am not real big and am pretty old and it is easy for me.
Cheers,
Mr Mike


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