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Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: gavin eisler] #714614
11/11/17 1:25 pm
11/11/17 1:25 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
OriginalScott Online content OP
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NY
Quote
The alloy used on the front brake plate and hub does not hold a polish like the motor casings, it will be difficult to keep this clean. Looks good though.


I'm up to the challenge:
[Linked Image]

Anyone remember the Classic Cloth? I bought that from Imperial Honda in about 1991. It works quite well. It is a thick cloth that has been soaked in a wax with a little bit of grit in it. I have saved it all these years because it works wonders on alloy fork legs.

Scott

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Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #716078
11/21/17 6:22 pm
11/21/17 6:22 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
OriginalScott Online content OP
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NY
Rebuilding the front forks:
The tubes looked really nice. I assume they are not originals and were replaced at some point in time.

The fork seals were replaced:
[Linked Image]

The pozidrive Oil Drain Screws were replaced with stainless allen head screws with the correct 2BA thread:
[Linked Image]

I ordered new alloy fork cap nuts from a reputable dealer but was surprised to get Wassell branded items. I should have known because they were very cheap. Well Wassell didn't dissapoint and the nuts would not screw all the way into the fork leg. It seems the last thread was never fully cut on both of these caps which left a large protrusion. I tried some really heavy pressure to try and force a new thread but all that did was mar the sides of the nuts.

Beware of Wassell:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

I had to get the last thread removed in a lathe on both caps. New parts shouldn't need machine work even if its minor.
[Linked Image]

Ready to install.
[Linked Image]

Questions:
What sealer do people use to seal the cap nuts?
What Progressive Suspension fork springs are people using for the B50? I couldn't find a listing for the B50 on their website.

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #717696
12/04/17 5:47 pm
12/04/17 5:47 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
OriginalScott Online content OP
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The frame and cycle parts are back from powder coat. I am waiting for a warm day to rinse the frame out with gasoline. I'm going to fill it up half way - shake it around - drain it and repeat until the gas that comes out is clean.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Just for fun I thought I would set the RK Leighton seat on the frame and see how it fits. Not really happy. Both the rear bolts are missing the tabs on the frame. I replaced the front mount that came on the seat with the original mount and I elongated the holes in it. I did get the seat on but it didn't drop into place. I'm hoping after a few rides the seat pan will deflect enough that it will mount easier.

[Linked Image]

I'm playing with period correct lighting. This is something the dealer would have installed on a customer bike if they bought an MX but wanted lights. Obviously the correct Lucas head lamp and wire mounts are an option but the customer probably wouldn't have paid for the premium Lucas items when the Bates catalog had this set-up for under $15.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #718467
12/11/17 11:08 pm
12/11/17 11:08 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
OriginalScott Online content OP
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NY
Ready to install new swingarm needle bearings, spindle, side plate and nut. The bearings went in no problem. When I broke the swingarm down the spacer was held captive between the the needle bearings and couldn't be withdrawn until I knocked one of the bearings out. I'm not sure if this was the way BSA did it but rather than trying to jam the spacer back in between the needle bearings I installed one bearing dropped the spacer in and installed the other bearing.

[Linked Image]

Everything went well. I greased the bearings and installed new zerks. Installed the bushings, plastic cover and washer on either side and prepared to install my new swingarm spindle. No Joy! The new swingarm spindle was getting stuck on one of the washers. I thought OK maybe one of the washers was a little snug. No problem I will pull the swingarm and trial fit the spindle with out the washers to see if anything else would bind. No Joy! The spindle wouldn't fit into the bushings either. Maybe a little 600 grit sandpaper would smooth out any imperfections in the new spindle and everything would slide in nicely with a little fitting. No Joy for the 3rd time! I contacted the supplier I bought it from and told them that the spindle was too big and that I thought they should know so they could contact their supplier and let them know. I didn't ask to return it or for a refund since I had polished it up a little with some sandpaper I would just chalk it up to experience and use the original one.

The offending spindle and where it binds on each of the washers and bushings:
[Linked Image]

This is as far as the washer will go onto the spindle:
[Linked Image]

This washer fits fine:
[Linked Image]

Neither bushing fits past the threads:
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

The washers and bushings fit fine on the original though:
[Linked Image]

When compared to the original spindle the new one is obviously larger by the threads.
[Linked Image]

So how did the well respected supplier respond to my email? They sold 4 of them this year and haven't had any complaints but mine. Since I am probably not the original owner I couldn't be sure my parts were original and therefore they won't fit. The spindle is supposed to fit tight so the fact that it is tight is normal. The spindles are made by MCA in England and they have been making them for years. The supplier has been in business for 40 years and never had any problems with parts from MCA.

Essentially it is my fault the brand new spindle doesn't fit the swingarm bushings and 1 of the washers. I won't name them because they did offer to refund my money if I sent it back.

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #718489
12/12/17 2:44 am
12/12/17 2:44 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,587
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Illinois, USA
You seem to have three options:
  • Send the new one back and use the old one
  • Polish the new one till it fits
  • Get out your bigger hammer

It's aggravating, as is the seat fitment, but the rest is looking good.


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #718518
12/12/17 2:14 pm
12/12/17 2:14 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,892
The Northwoods... Michigan
Steve Erickson Offline
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The Northwoods... Michigan
Kinda hard to tell for sure from the pix, but it appears that you have the BSA solo seat designed for pre-OIF frames. The pictured bike you're modeling after has a B50MX seat on it, different from yours. Longer, fatter, mounts with studs and spacers into aluminum pan (or fiberglass on repops). You may be able to use what you have, but the seat is intended to have a "riser" bracket, as the seat won't clear the fender if you try to bolt it down tight. The riser could be made to handle the offset possibly.

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: Steve Erickson] #718523
12/12/17 2:58 pm
12/12/17 2:58 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
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NY
I am going to use the original spindle for now. I'm saving for one these kits from CCM:
[Linked Image]

I will take some pics of the underside of the seat. The rear mounts in the seat pan are studs that have a stand-off to keep the seat off the fender. The seat is a repro from RK Leighton. The part number is the same as the B50MX seat (83-2746). The pan is plastic or fiberglass. The seat itself looks great and is nice and firm. It fits with a little tweaking.

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #718710
12/14/17 2:24 am
12/14/17 2:24 am
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
OriginalScott Online content OP
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Here are some pictures of the underside of the seat. I replaced the front mount that came on the seat with the original mount. The rear studs each have a stand-off to lift the seat off the rear fender. I have had the seat sitting in place on the frame for the last week and noticed that it was much easier to get on and off. The seat pan must be conforming to the frame.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #718753
12/14/17 3:05 pm
12/14/17 3:05 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,892
The Northwoods... Michigan
Steve Erickson Offline
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The Northwoods... Michigan
Yep, please disregard my earlier guess... these show the size and scale, certainly the seat looks like the right one.

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #724590
02/07/18 2:42 am
02/07/18 2:42 am
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NY
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NY
It's too cold in the garage to spend any time out there so I have been hunting for parts. I was able to grab some items that I wanted but thought would be difficult to find.

First up is the Y pipe for the dual mufflers that came on the 73 MX bikes. I had it ceramic coated glacier black.
[Linked Image]

I had always knew I would run a tachometer on my bike but thought it would have to be one of the new digital Smiths units. I was able to find an NOS tach drive. Which put me on the hunt for an older Smiths tach. I dont like the 60mm tach with the 80mm speedo so I went with a 4:1 unit from the twins and triples. I've got a new cable on order from vintagebritishcables.com
[Linked Image]

More to come....
Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #725395
02/13/18 2:23 am
02/13/18 2:23 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,936
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Central Virginia
Just to let you know we're still following this build. I'm really glad you're doing the solo seat - that badly bent "banana" seat on the stock B50s gave it a really strange and ugly look ....

Looking good!

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #725847
02/16/18 10:26 pm
02/16/18 10:26 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
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Thanks Lannis. There hasn't been much to do lately. I have been concentrating on gathering everything I need so once the motor comes back it will be crunch time. The goal is to have it mostly completed by Spring which truthfully doesn't happen here in Western New York until mid May. I gotta say your 2 hours a day is putting me to shame. I would love to see more pictures of your Moto Guzzi.

More new parts:
Here is the most expensive tach cable in the Britbike world (probably not) which only fits the most expensive tach drive in the Britbike world (again probably not but lets say my budget has taken a huge hit and new rims/spokes may have to wait until fall).

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

And now for the main attraction. Obviously the Y pipe is only worth having if you can get the dual mufflers and the original bracket. I ended up with 2 sets of dual mufflers. One set were dealer take offs that had been moved around and had some dings and dents. The other set I lucked into were NOS. There is a seller that had NOS top mufflers (part # 71-3750) for sale on eBay. I bought one of those to replace the top muffler I already had but this showed up instead.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

This is an NOS lower muffler part number 71-3751. I had contacted the seller previous to ordering and asked if he had the lower muffler but he said he didn't. So I contacted him again to let him know he sent me a lower muffler and I wanted to verify he also had the top muffler. He said he didn't even check the box but assumed they were all tops. It turns out he has 3 more lowers and more tops as well. So I ended up with a matched set of NOS dual mufflers and a set of dealer take offs that have some dings and shelf wear. Here are my NOS dual mufflers:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

So this got me thinking, how have these mufflers lasted 45 years in essentially new condition? And what else is still out there? When Cycle Hub sold its inventory in the early 2000s I thought we would see a flood of NOS parts but that never really happened. The buyers had a website where they sold parts for a while but I don't think they even sold 1/4 of what they originally bought. Possibly these mufflers came out of the Cycle Hub stash or another longtime dealer who sold off there inventory. Anyone know what ever happened to all those Cycle Hub parts?

Scott


Last edited by OriginalScott; 02/16/18 10:29 pm.
Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #725852
02/16/18 10:48 pm
02/16/18 10:48 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,936
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Central Virginia
You are definitely hooked in to the "Rare NOS Parts" pipeline ... but as you say, there's money involved!

Gonna be a nice looking bike ... !

I'll be out in the shop tonight, I'll take an extra Guzzi picture ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #728452
03/13/18 2:11 am
03/13/18 2:11 am
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
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I got the sidecovers figured out. The correct smaller grommets and oddie studs were ordered and the fit is perfect. I tried my hand at water slide transfers. These were ordered from the VMCC. I layed out the measurements to center the transfer in the middle of the sidecover. I tried to line them up with the top edge of the sidecover. This means they will probably be running uphill when the bike is back on its wheels. I used 2 coats of clear gloss marine varnish to finish them off.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

There has been some developments on my alloy tank. The dents are being removed. I should have it back in a few weeks for paint touch up and pinstriping.

Left side
[Linked Image]

Right side
[Linked Image]

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #730785
04/03/18 10:28 pm
04/03/18 10:28 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
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NY
I started making the wiring harness. So far I have concentrated on ignition and charging. The goal is a very simple system.

The p.o. was not an electrical engineer that's for sure. I threw out all his wiring but was left with some bodges to clean up. He wanted a fancy connector for his reg/rec unit so he spliced one in with crimp-on connectors. This made some of the leads really short and butchered the alternator wiring / conduit.
Here it is with the conduit pulled away:
[Linked Image]

Cheap crimp on connectors and yellow wires:
[Linked Image]

I didn't want to spend $20 on a couple of feet of the correct green/yellow and white/green striped wire so I substituted 16 gauge (16 strand) solid green and solid white wire. Soldered and shrink wrapped:
[Linked Image]

New conduit added and shrink wrapped at the oily end:
[Linked Image]

Here is the wiring diagram I made up:
[Linked Image]

Here is the coil, ignition capacitor and reg/rec unit in place on the bike:
[Linked Image]

I am using Japanese 4mm bullet connectors with clear shields to make connections:
[Linked Image]

This showed up last week also.
[Linked Image]

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #730973
04/05/18 3:30 pm
04/05/18 3:30 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,360
SE Ohio
No Name Man Offline

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SE Ohio
Hey Scott...wondering if you still have the downpipe and muffler that was on when you bought it?

Bill E


69 A65T
71 B50T
85 K100RS
54/59 A10SR
69 B44VS
71 A65FS
95 Trident
Too much moderation is bad for you.

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #730986
04/05/18 5:07 pm
04/05/18 5:07 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
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Hi Bill
The down pipe is gone but I still have the muffler. Let me know if you want it and I will take some pictures.
Thanks
Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #731123
04/06/18 3:29 pm
04/06/18 3:29 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,360
SE Ohio
No Name Man Offline

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SE Ohio
I might be interested. yer PM is full...


69 A65T
71 B50T
85 K100RS
54/59 A10SR
69 B44VS
71 A65FS
95 Trident
Too much moderation is bad for you.

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #732281
04/18/18 9:50 am
04/18/18 9:50 am
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
OriginalScott Online content OP
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NY
I will be running a headlight and tail light. Here is the wiring diagram for the lighting. The harness is finished up and ready to go.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

With the wiring done I moved to the rear wheel. The hub was stripped of the terrible brushed on black paint and painted silver. The rim is an 18" WM3 flanged alloy. Supposedly it is made in the same Italian factory as the new Borranni rims. I'm not sure I believe that but it was just what I was looking for. I got it laced up with stainless spokes and nipples from Buchanan's and will true it up tomorrow.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #734141
05/04/18 10:06 pm
05/04/18 10:06 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
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Update:
The bike is back on its wheels. I have to send the front rim out for drilling. It is a 19" flanged alloy rim. I decided against the 21" rim for a few reasons. It was difficult to find a matching flanged 21" rim with the correct drilling for the larger conical hub. I also reconciled the fact that this will be primarily a street bike so the 19" rim seemed like a better fit. The same goes for the Dunlop K70 tires. They seemed like a better option than dual sport tires on the street.

[Linked Image]

Here it is so far. Hopefully it will be On the road before the end of summer.

[Linked Image]

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #735382
05/15/18 1:31 pm
05/15/18 1:31 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
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NY
Small Update: The tank is back from having the dents removed. The goal was to salvage the original paint and add new red pinstripes and decals. That turned out to be impossible due to a dent within the painted area on the side. I finished removing the paint and polished the rest of the tank. For now it will stay bare polished with no paint. Possibly in the future I will add the original style cross in Hi Violet. I bolted up the mufflers to give the final shape to the bike. I'm waiting to get the front rim back from being drilled so I can then refurbish the front hub and lace with new stainless spokes and nipples. Here it is so far:

[Linked Image]

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #735387
05/15/18 1:50 pm
05/15/18 1:50 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,892
The Northwoods... Michigan
Steve Erickson Offline
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The Northwoods... Michigan
Looking great.

Where did you send the tank, looks like they did a good job? Those front dents were in a difficult spot, and that sharp crease had to be a bear to straighten with dollies. Did they cut the tank open?

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: Steve Erickson] #735396
05/15/18 2:27 pm
05/15/18 2:27 pm
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 530
NY
OriginalScott Online content OP
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NY
Hi Steve,
I sent the tank to Joe Abbate's Cycle Therapy in CA. He restores vintage dirt bikes. He did drill a small hole in the left side of the tunnel to get the crease out and welded it back up. I think he did the rest of the tank through the filler hole as I can't find any other welded holes. He uses dollies and sanding on the outside to get the final finish. He sanded and polished both sides of the tank. I am very happy with his work.

Scott

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #735423
05/15/18 5:25 pm
05/15/18 5:25 pm
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 587
cresaptown md. us
M
mac Offline
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mac  Offline
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M

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 587
cresaptown md. us
"if" your interested... i have a stock under tank elect box.

Re: Hammer of the Gods - Rebuilding a B50 [Re: OriginalScott] #735461
05/15/18 10:24 pm
05/15/18 10:24 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,936
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Posts: 12,936
Central Virginia
This is really going too be a bike to be proud of. I hope that its overall "feel" and performance on the road meets your expectations! Sometimes the "journey" turns out to be the "destination" ... but I'm sure it'll do anything that a B50 can do .... !

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
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