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Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? #624841
11/08/15 9:38 pm
11/08/15 9:38 pm
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 29
Penna
D
Dnaj11 Offline OP
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Dnaj11  Offline OP
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Penna
Looks like there is two engines and two trans, one of each disassembled, and one rolling frame with maybe aTriumph front. I can't find any VIN or engine numbers anywhere. Here is a link to many photos. Thanks in advance.

http://s713.photobucket.com/user/dnaj11/library/sunbeam?sort=3&page=1

Last edited by Dnaj11; 11/08/15 9:52 pm.
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Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #624850
11/08/15 10:20 pm
11/08/15 10:20 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,076
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
S7 or S8, not sure which, one had fat tires the other had regular sizes, 500 cc inline twin with shaft drive, soft tuned touring bike. look on the members page for a good thread on a similar model being restored


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #624870
11/09/15 2:53 am
11/09/15 2:53 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,226
Oztralia
R
Rohan Offline
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Oztralia
These are of course postwar, when BSA had bought Sunbeams.
And had grand schemes of producing a gentlemans tourer.

Sort of a cross between a BM with shaft drive and an Indian 4 - with 2 cylinders....

Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #624872
11/09/15 4:26 am
11/09/15 4:26 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,018
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Les P Offline

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Les P  Offline

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Originally Posted By Dnaj11
Looks like there is two engines and two trans, one of each disassembled, and one rolling frame with maybe aTriumph front. I can't find any VIN or engine numbers anywhere. Here is a link to many photos. Thanks in advance.



The rolling chassis looks to be a 1949 on S7 deluxe based on the cantilever seat spring sticking out of the top frame tube.
Among the parts are some earlier S7 (1946 to 1948) parts in the form of a cylinder head that does not have the extra gusset across the head in the area of the camshaft bore at the rea rof the cylinder head.
There is also a early S7 sump, the front wheel is off something else at first glance.
The engine number is stamped at the front lower centre under the dynamo mount, that same number would if the original drive line be also stamped on the cylinder head on the rocker gasket surface near the cam tunnel, it would also be on the right hand side of the transmission case near the gear shift spline.
The frame number will be stamped on the left hand top tube where the seat would be.
The frame will be prefix S7, the engine etc S8 unless it a early s7 which would prefix S7.


More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Les P] #624873
11/09/15 4:45 am
11/09/15 4:45 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,018
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Les P Offline

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Les P  Offline

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The forks may not be off an S7 deluxe, it is hard to tell but the stanchion should have a taper to suit the lower triple clamp along with a thread and large nut to secure things.
The forks are hard to find.
If you are looking to buy those pieces there are a lot of things to look out for.


On the later bikes,1949 on S7 deluxe and S8 the frame and engine numbers did not match but were in a series range to each other (date able), the engine number, cylinder head and gearbox were stamped with the same number.

The arrows point to the frame, engine case, cylinder head and gearbox numbers location.
Even the distributors are date stamped etc.
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Les P; 03/15/18 3:14 am. Reason: Add information about the red arrows.

More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Les P] #624878
11/09/15 5:22 am
11/09/15 5:22 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,018
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Les P Offline

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Les P  Offline

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This page is probably the best for a compressed history.

http://classicglory.co.uk/models.htm

Maybe it is a early S7, you never know, the frame number would reveal that as per the link information.
There are certainly some early parts in the piles including what looks to be an early flywheel.


More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #624897
11/09/15 10:10 am
11/09/15 10:10 am
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,810
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Offline
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Elburn, Ill. USA
the large rear fender indicates the chassis is most likely an S7.
The front fork and wheel are properly from an S8, as that model shared it with BSA.

As I remember, the model and serial number are stamped on the FRONT of the engine crankcase.

Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #624909
11/09/15 12:12 pm
11/09/15 12:12 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,689
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline

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Al Eckstadt  Offline

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Jordan, NY
Mike Waller of Britannia Motorcycles in Richford NY can answer most of your questions. He also may not be located all too far away from you if you live in Pennsylania. He is a Yorkshireman and has recently restored a '47 Sunbeam S7.
Britannia Motorcycles, Richford NY
Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Les P] #625129
11/10/15 3:58 pm
11/10/15 3:58 pm
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 29
Penna
D
Dnaj11 Offline OP
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Dnaj11  Offline OP
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Penna
That's a big help, thanks! Looks like its mostly S7, with a few disassembled S8 bits thrown in. The owner did have an S8 years ago. Anyway, here are the numbers I got.

Frame: S7 6231
Intact Motor: Unreadable, looks partial like O1
Head on intact motor: 6286
Intact transmission attached to engine: S7-527

The empty S8 transmission case is cracked at the drive shaft end. Looks like S8-10012.

There are two extra heads by they are different styles. One is 1701, and closely resembles the head installed on the intact motor. The other number may be 824?

And one empty engine case looks to read S7-1195.

I uploaded more photos to the photobucket. This shows the forks near the yolk as well. Trying to figure out what is correct and what this bucket of bolts may be worth.

Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #625131
11/10/15 4:17 pm
11/10/15 4:17 pm
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,018
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Les P Offline

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Les P  Offline

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That frame number is S7 DELUXE.- 1949 and on
As already stated S7 deluxe (which is not an "S7") and S8 drive line parts are all stamped S8 because both were produced along side each other from 1949.

If the engine is S7 527 then it is an S7 which has differences from the S7 deluxe which all have a S8 prefix.
The link I posted has the numbers and how they corresponded to the years and models.
The early heads are easy to spot by the missing gusset at the camshaft tunnel and stand alone lug for the rear rocker pedestal fastener.

If you have the 'bike at hand you would want to be removing the top access cover on the final drive and checking the worm wheel for wear and or pitting.
Plenty of pictures here etc as Gavin posted.

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=579286&page=all

Time to go and build an LNG plant.........


More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Les P] #625419
11/12/15 6:21 am
11/12/15 6:21 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,018
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Les P Offline

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Les P  Offline

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This is the last Sunbeam (S7 Deluxe) of any merit that I have seen on US eBay.
It failed to reach reserve but attracted bids over US$13000.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Other-Makes...=p2047675.l2557


I must be the only one interested in this thread.
The S7 deluxe might very well be the best British motorcycle ever built, certainly better than silly T120's with the head light and mufflers removed at the factory or old 'chook chaser BSA singles. laugh

Most of the parts in the pile are from an S7 by the look of it.



The part rolling chassis is from one of these, an S7 deluxe, looks like the S7 but has many differences.



This is the Sunbeam S8, production started in 1949 same as the S7 Deluxe and as posted the mechanical parts on both were prefixed S8, the S8 frame had a S8 prefix also, S7 on the deluxe, no surprise there.
The numbers never matched on these two models but the frame and engine/transmission numbers would fall into a range to each other.
The engine/trans numbers would be the same though.




Originally Posted By Dnaj11

Intact Motor: Unreadable, looks partial like O1
Head on intact motor: 6286
Intact transmission attached to engine: S7-527

The empty S8 transmission case is cracked at the drive shaft end. Looks like S8-10012.

There are two extra heads by they are different styles. One is 1701, and closely resembles the head installed on the intact motor. The other number may be 824?

And one empty engine case looks to read S7-1195.


You have one unknown engine.
A 6286 stamped head from a S7 deluxe, perhaps from 1950 or later.
A trans ? stamped S7 527, if the early model S7 (Only) was indeed matching numbers as posted (Internet) and starting at S7 101 that would be a low number, maybe 1946 and the first year for them (2000 built until early 1949 according to Classic Glory)
The cracked trans case (S8 10012) could be out of a S8 or S7 deluxe, perhaps from around 1952.
The two heads, the 1701 if it does not have the gusset as posted in theory is S7, I did see one in the pics with a gusset, if that is the 824? then perhaps the ? is another number and most likely off a S7 deluxe or S8.
The other engine case if stamped S7 is from an early S7.

What is it worth is anyone's guess, the market is odd to say the least.
If they are damaged (broken fins etc) then the market would be small.
The S7 deluxe steel mudguards/fenders are worth something as are most of the steel panel parts.
If the front end is S8 which is BSAish but not entirely the same as the BSA's of the time, it would be worth a fraction of the S7 type as they were stand alone parts (The fat tyre bikes had the same wheel front and rear, the S8 used the same hub (iirc) on the rear only.
Apparently only brave folk would attempt to restore one of those early bikes based on hard to find parts and said to be somewhat unreliable (internet) no doubt someone out there would be interested in the S7 parts all the same.
The US market is far removed from the one here so price is only speculation.
I am a fan but see little of interest in the piles being S7 and not deluxe, it would be gold to others in the USA if promoted as there are some rare bits if you know what you are looking at.


More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Les P] #625449
11/12/15 12:44 pm
11/12/15 12:44 pm
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,501
Orygone
Boomer Offline

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Orygone
Originally Posted By Les P






The S7 deluxe might very well be the best British motorcycle ever built, certainly better than silly T120's with the head light and mufflers removed at the factory or old 'chook chaser BSA singles. laugh










laugh laugh laugh clap


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #625455
11/12/15 12:56 pm
11/12/15 12:56 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,495
Scotland
kommando Offline
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Quote:
I must be the only one interested in this thread.


No but nothing to add to your expert comments wink

The S7 does look a difficult one to restore with all its unique parts, low production and very few sources, plus all the S7 Deluxe/S8 parts mis described.

Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: kommando] #625797
11/15/15 5:52 am
11/15/15 5:52 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,018
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Les P Offline

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Les P  Offline

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I'm not much of an expert, I just realised the Deluxe I picked up a month of so back and called a 1953 is more likely a 1954 model.
I had based that expert 'analysis whistle on this page as its numbers Frame # S7- 7171, Engine # S8-12336 were close to those of #16 in this list but now see that was a dispatch date.



This thread reminds of that purchase, there were two Sunbeams, the S7 deluxe and a S8.

The seller wanted me to buy both bikes and have a hunch the asking price for the S8 alone which was quite complete was probably less than what the parts in this thread are being sold for.
I had considered on the spot buying it (the S8 ) for spares, the seller suggesting even if I parted it out but as I told him that is not my thing, the bike was a perfect candidate for restoration.
I hope it found a buyer and is on its journey back to being roadworthy.



More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.
Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Les P] #655444
06/03/16 6:56 pm
06/03/16 6:56 pm
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2
florida
D
doug mcmahon Offline
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florida
is these bikes for sale? are they in the USA?The frame number is on the top left hand side of the frame under the seat stamped in the frame casting

Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #728439
03/12/18 11:23 pm
03/12/18 11:23 pm
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 8
Lightstreet, PA, USA
O
opus Offline
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Lightstreet, PA, USA
I'm curious, whatever became of this collection of parts? I recently obtained a 1946 S7 and am trying to find an engine for it. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott

Re: Can someone ID this old Sunbeam? [Re: Dnaj11] #728649
03/15/18 3:06 am
03/15/18 3:06 am
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Les P Offline

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It might be worth contacting the thread starter since he knew the source of the parts but did not reveal the seller as I recall (He had edited his post iirc)

If not known already, it might be worth joining the fellowship http://www.onthebeam.co.uk/ to ask if the 1949 and on engines fit into the 1946 to 1948 S7 frame if that is your intention.
Any pictures ? since it is fairly rare (even though some 16000 were built in total) to see these bikes mentioned in general.


More bikes and projects than you can shake a stick at but they should be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail.

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