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Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #730290
03/29/18 4:07 pm
03/29/18 4:07 pm
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Posts: 162
Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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Ok, a couple of days off work and I had to see if my cunning plan would work.

The cunning plan was to hide a panckake filter just in front of air filter box and with a bit of fettleing I got it to sit pretty good.

A problem I can see is that if/when I need to take the the carb off, i`ll be pretty fecked because I don`t have enough wiggle room to take the filter off to be able to move the carb off the studs.

The only (proberbly terrible) solution I can come up with is to fit the 2 to 1 manifold with bolts, rather than studs.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Bolts won`t work on the carb itself because the carb body is in the way.

what do you fellas think? I can cut a hole in the filter box and fit the original type Metisse filter but then I have to find somewhere else for the 12v system and will need to make a new wireing loom.

Last edited by Manx; 03/29/18 4:11 pm.

1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
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Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #730291
03/29/18 4:13 pm
03/29/18 4:13 pm
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 756
Edgewater, Md
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Blown Income Offline

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Edgewater, Md
A Socket head or "allen" bolt will work in lieu of the studs.


1955 BSA Bantam D1 Plunger
1956 BSA A10RR Street and LSR Bike
1961 BSA C15S
1966 BSA spitfire
1969 Triumph T100C
1970 Triumph TR6R
1972 BSA Lightning LSR Bike
1974 Triumph T150V
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Blown Income] #730293
03/29/18 4:36 pm
03/29/18 4:36 pm
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Manx Offline OP
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Yep.

And the million dollar question is what thread should they be?

Are you thinking carb or manifold?


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #730305
03/29/18 7:27 pm
03/29/18 7:27 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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Is there nor the rudiments of an airbox already , that pancake looks like too hard a puzzle, maybe use the battery box to house a car filter cut to size with a bit of hose from carb to box.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #730312
03/29/18 8:55 pm
03/29/18 8:55 pm
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Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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The air filter box is full of electrickery and the battery and I can't really hide it anywhere else.


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #730313
03/29/18 9:24 pm
03/29/18 9:24 pm
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 741
Farnham, Surrey, UK
gunner Offline
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Difficult to see from the photos how much room there is behind the carb for an air filter, perhaps one solution would be too use a threaded cone filter available from AMAL seeThis Link. This filter is apparently extends beyond the rear edge of the carb by 65mm, you may need to cut away some material from the battery box but as its cone shaped it should be minimal.

Regarding the manifold studs as already mentioned I believe the thread is 1/4 unf, so it should be possible to use socket caps in place of the studs.


1968 A65 Firebird
1967 B44 Shooting Star
1972 Norton Commando
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #730322
03/29/18 10:13 pm
03/29/18 10:13 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,675
Aus
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NickL Offline
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Aus
2 x 5/16 BSF allen bolts with spring washers will do the trick.



Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: gunner] #730325
03/29/18 10:27 pm
03/29/18 10:27 pm
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Posts: 162
Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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Hmm.. good thinking batman.

Did a bit of measuring and looks like that could work. If I cut a hole just big enough to enable me to take the filter off then I have ample room to take the carb off.

I'll have another look tomorrow.


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731027
04/05/18 8:47 pm
04/05/18 8:47 pm
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Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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Right. Clutch time.

I fit my clutch this evening but it looks like my rod has worn short so I had to order a new one.

I also think that my clutch inner cable is too short .

Should the clutch mechanism (later type) be completely relaxed with the cable attached?

I think the cable length has been made shorter to compensate for the worn rod.

And how tight should the springs be? I think I read somewhere that one coil should be visible.
Does that sound right? It's lifting crooked on one spring should that one be backed off a little, or the others tightened?

Proberbly basic stuff for you guys.


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731064
04/06/18 12:47 am
04/06/18 12:47 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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The three ball ramp should be fully relaxed with the cable slack ( the 3 mounting screw heads should be visible through the three holes in the moving part), it will "click " loudly if it isnt. Screw the cable adjusters in at each end of the cable,theres about an inch on each one. Use the clutch pressure plate centre adjuster to set the push rod clearance about a 1/4 to 1/2 turn from touching. this beds in fast and closes as the plates settle in , recheck after a few hundred miles. or sooner.

Try setting the clutch springs with the centre stud just flush with the screw slot bottom, fix a pointer up using whatever comes to hand use the casing flange tapped holes to mount a screw with a bit of stiff wire. Spin the clutch withdrawn and tune out wobble by tightening the high spring, or slackening the low side.

A couple of finer points on tweaking the springs, the adjuster screws have a dimple /pip which engages with the end of the spring, when fine tuning bear this in mind, you can feel the pip ride over the spring end as you tighten, 1/2 turn adjustments that dont meet pip to spring end will change in use as it settles in, its better to err on the light side, your left hand and the clutch cable will last longer, you can always tighten up later if you get slip, this will show up in 3rd when tackling hills.
Aim for somewhere like 6 - 10 lbs pull at the hand lever with a spring balance to check .



This works for me with 750 springs. I dont know about the 7 plate set up , but it would be a good starting point, if it slips in use you can tighten them up later.

Shortening the cable to suit a worn rod is a bad idea,

have you got the ball bearing that goes between the end of the pushrod and the 3 ball ramp cup, if it was missing it might account for the pushrod discrepancy?

While you are in there slather the three ball mech with bearing grease , the black stuff with moly in it, then you will know where the black drool is coming from later, wink, it helps keep the clutch light.



Last edited by gavin eisler; 04/06/18 1:08 am.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731075
04/06/18 4:44 am
04/06/18 4:44 am
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Posts: 162
Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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Thanks Gavin.

The little ball is there and so is the clicking noise, even with the adjusters fully backed off.

My manual only shows the early type clutch but that has a springy thing between mechanism and cable. Should the late type also have that?

My rod is about half a cm too short and looks cut. Almost looks like some numpty has cut it to compensate for too short inner .


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731076
04/06/18 5:19 am
04/06/18 5:19 am
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 435
Au
M
markoz Offline
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Au
With some of the clutch conversion kits like the SRM pressure plate you had to shorten the rod about that much

Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: markoz] #731085
04/06/18 7:16 am
04/06/18 7:16 am
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Posts: 162
Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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I have the SRM pressure plate kit and its still too short.

My cylinder kit is sorted now and will be sent today along with a new clutch rod. smile


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731093
04/06/18 9:06 am
04/06/18 9:06 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
The early type clutch has the springy thing, not yours the cable inner goes straight to the op arm., you need a new cable from the sound of it, either for a 70 or 71, or make your own. its not unusual to cut the push rod in half and add an extra ball bearing, you may get away with that. When cutting push rods, clean up cut on grinder , then heat to cherry red and quench in oil to harden the end.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731096
04/06/18 10:10 am
04/06/18 10:10 am
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 162
Norway
M
Manx Offline OP
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I make my own cables. I`m trying to find somewhere local that has cable elbows, so I can add one for better pipe clearence at the same time.

Yup, cherry red and quench in oil. will do, cheers.


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731105
04/06/18 12:32 pm
04/06/18 12:32 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
something to think about , to get the correct push rod length, remember that as the clutch pack wears down, the centre adjuster screw will be backed out, cut pushrod to length so that the centre adjuster is screwed almost flush with the lock nut for the new plate stack. As it wears in this leaves max adjustment.

The female threads into the outer ally case for the cable adjuster boss are 1/2" UNC, ( 13 tpi),, maybe get a small dia tube bend and weld to a drilled 1/2" UnC threaded rod about an inch long with lock nut to fit the casing , the adjuster could go mid cable. When I need stuff like this I go to the dump with a hack saw and an adjustable spanner, rake about in the metal skip for inspiration.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 04/06/18 12:45 pm.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731368
04/08/18 6:49 pm
04/08/18 6:49 pm
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 162
Norway
M
Manx Offline OP
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Norway
Cables, wires and electrics all sorted.

According to tracking, the rest of the parts should be here by Friday... Not long now.

[Linked Image]

Hard to see on the pic but I found some flexy heat protective stuff (in metal) I fit to the clutch outer and when you bend it, it stays put. No Idea what its realy for but found it at my local hardware shop.

Last edited by Manx; 04/08/18 6:52 pm.

1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731547
04/10/18 3:50 pm
04/10/18 3:50 pm
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Posts: 162
Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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Norway
Could someone post a photo of the correct route for a tbolt rocker feed pipe please?


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731976
04/15/18 6:36 pm
04/15/18 6:36 pm
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Posts: 162
Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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Ok. Ive got a strange one here...

I`m finnished builing the top end and added oil and currently priming the motor.

When turning the motor over I get a click from the right hand inlet cam follower or cam. the others are silent.

What have I done wrong now?? Its not the tappet because I have taken the rod off the rocker arm to see if I could localise the sound.


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731983
04/15/18 7:17 pm
04/15/18 7:17 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
A tight cam follower might do this, strip , examine, maybe a burr, dirt ? Remove idler pinion and spin cam with no push rods before pulling the barrels, that should help isolate it.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #731989
04/15/18 8:22 pm
04/15/18 8:22 pm
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Posts: 162
Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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Ohh jezus..... thats 3 nights work. mad

Its a real real pain to fit and remove the head becaus there isn`t enough room to lift it without removing the studs.


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #732001
04/15/18 10:22 pm
04/15/18 10:22 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
Join the club , i got the lump in , then found the crank wouldnt turn last rebuild, cocked up the TS bearing spacing, now I just whistle at it and it jumps out ,I wish.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #732002
04/15/18 10:43 pm
04/15/18 10:43 pm
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Aus
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NickL Offline
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Aus
That click is most likely to be the cam gear backlash as the valve spring loads change.
My motor is quiet when cold but once warm i get that noise, bit like a loose tappet.
You don't hear it at 6K+ so don't fret about it...............



Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #732032
04/16/18 4:40 am
04/16/18 4:40 am
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Posts: 162
Norway
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Manx Offline OP
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Before I went to bed I span the engine a couple of times on the kick start and it clicks just before the both inlet valves are activated. The cam and shims and bushes are brand new.
The only parts that are re-used are the followers but I inspected them and they didn't look worn and moved fine in the seats.

I also span the motor without the head on and it was silent.

Why would the cam gear click on the 2 outer lobes?


1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
Re: Robs engine rebuild help thread [Re: Manx] #732034
04/16/18 5:58 am
04/16/18 5:58 am
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Posts: 162
Norway
M
Manx Offline OP
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Could it be that the followers dont quite follow the cam?

I used some sticky start up grease to keep the followers in the barrel but maybe that shouldn`t affect it while they are under spring pressure.

[Linked Image]

Didn`t get any sleep last night. cry

I`m loading up the video on youtube... comming soon

Last edited by Manx; 04/16/18 6:08 am.

1966 Rickman Metisse (a65)
1960 A10 golden flash
1960 lambretta li150
1942 Ariel W/ng
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