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Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? #727058
02/28/18 1:06 pm
02/28/18 1:06 pm
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 74
UK - Bucks
Steve Wilson Offline OP

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Steve Wilson  Offline OP

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UK - Bucks
Looking for advice on A65 gearboxes :-) (1971 Thunderbolt)
Mine seems Ok but has never had a slick change. Clutch is mostly rebuilt - light - not dragging.
Engine is apart at the moment so there's an opportunity to tinker
I have seen stepped Camplates for sale - claimed to help gear selection by supporting the selector forks better - sounds logical but does it work?

Last edited by Steve Wilson; 02/28/18 1:08 pm. Reason: Didnt get the last sentance in!

SJW
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Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727078
02/28/18 3:56 pm
02/28/18 3:56 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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argyll. scotland, uk
Stepped?, later cam plates were braced with a stiffening strap, its better than not having a stiffening strap. you can lighten the change by polishing all the surfaces where the selector forks run, cam track and cam track shoulders., layshaft end float makes most difference , set to 3 thou, as found its usually a lot more, needing a thicker shim at DS end of layshaft, BSA offered 2 oversizes on this shim, the fattest one usually does it, the closer to 3 thou ( but no less ) the better it gets. Cutting 2 turns off the cam plate plunger spring make the change better, do all three, polish cam plate, shim Lay shaft. trim spring, and it will feel much better to use.
David drew sells lovely ball ended cam plate plungers on eBay, these prevent the plunger ploughing into the cam plate, this is usually where you see most obvious wear, it can be repaired by welding, reprofiling. if the rest of the plate is sound.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727085
02/28/18 5:07 pm
02/28/18 5:07 pm
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Posts: 3,646
ca, us
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DMadigan Offline
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The shift forks are supported by the rod, the camplate only provides the side thrust.
The track around second gear is usually worn the most because of the shorter radius from the camplate pivot and steep angle required for the movement.
The slots look to be sheared out and are very rough so what Gavin said will help but do not go too far as it increases the fork slop.
A worn camplate that I have shows all of Gavin's comments: rough tracks, groove in the detent path and wear grooves around the plunger windows.

Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727094
02/28/18 6:27 pm
02/28/18 6:27 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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i find the wear around the plunger windows is not so significant for a good change , sometimes it might even help a little, so long as the little pawls are not chipped, that does make a huge difference. As DMadigan says, the cam track slots have an obvious depression one side and up pull on the other from the shear process, flattening the "up pull" on 150 grit stuck to a flat surface, then light polishing with 200 down to 400 grit works, its easy to make them much better , how much is up to you. If you find rough spots on the cam plate track selector fork track roller surfaces a small wooden dowel split and wrapped with a bit of 200 grit then 400, spun in a drill will do the job ..


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727121
02/28/18 11:35 pm
02/28/18 11:35 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,675
Aus
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NickL Offline
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The last of the camplates were indeed stepped, i've just fitted a new old stock one to the engine on my bench.
They were the best of 'em but hens teeth now. (57-2767)
The ones with the brace were around for a few years but were replaced by a thicker one in about '70. Then the stepped one in late '71
The brace part never seemed to make any difference, it's the track shape that improved things.

What Gavin says.
Shimming the layshaft end-float is very important. As is the condition of the camplate tracks, getting full engagement of the dogs
especially in 2nd is the thing to aim for. Grip the end plate in a vice and go through the gears with it assembled you'll see what is required.
Sometimes the camplate needs shimming in the end plate as well. The poor parallel dogging of this box needs all the help it can get.
An outrigger bearing setup will also improve shifting as it helps stop the bowing in the mainshaft.

Last edited by NickL; 03/01/18 12:09 am.


Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727124
03/01/18 12:13 am
03/01/18 12:13 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,675
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NickL Offline
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This bloke has dug some out in the 'states. He comes up with some good stuff every now and then.

https://www.eBay.com.au/itm/BSA-57-2767-Camplate-A65-1969-1970-Lightning-Thunderbolt-Firebird-NOS-NP6966/371660769832?epid=1074446669&hash=item5688b54a28:g:rusAAOSwc1FXZuok



Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727136
03/01/18 1:50 am
03/01/18 1:50 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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I didnt know that about the strap being earlier than the step,,live and learn,. my bike came with an assortment of plates, was never sure what year was what. I think the last 4 speed one I got from SRM was stepped when I look back, more chunky and a less sloppy fit.That was circa 1985 it lasted well. shows slight grooving on the plunger track , I spent a couple of hours spiffing it up around 2000 , noticed a big improvement to the change .

Last edited by gavin eisler; 03/01/18 1:55 am.

71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727319
03/02/18 9:58 pm
03/02/18 9:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 74
UK - Bucks
Steve Wilson Offline OP

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Steve Wilson  Offline OP

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Thanks Guys. I think Burton Bike bits have the stepped ones in stock. Will look at the end float as well.


SJW
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727327
03/02/18 11:57 pm
03/02/18 11:57 pm
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NickL Offline
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When using that camplate, you should check it doesn't foul the bottom of the cases in the box when 4th is selected.
You may need to get the file out.........................



Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #727608
03/05/18 9:35 am
03/05/18 9:35 am
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 74
UK - Bucks
Steve Wilson Offline OP

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Steve Wilson  Offline OP

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Thanx


SJW
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: NickL] #730886
04/04/18 9:51 pm
04/04/18 9:51 pm
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 74
UK - Bucks
Steve Wilson Offline OP

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Steve Wilson  Offline OP

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Well - I checked out the old camplate and decided it could be used. Polished it up as suggested. Ran a dremel round the selector tracks. When the bearings turn up I will sort out the end float.
Cheers


SJW
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #730895
04/04/18 11:27 pm
04/04/18 11:27 pm
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Posts: 3,675
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NickL Offline
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The thing to check with the camplate is the fit of the selector rollers in the tracks as well as the plunger face.
2nd and 3rd gear are where most wear occurs, that's where the fit of the rollers needs to be good, when the plate
wears the dogs don't engage properly and it'll jump out of gear or just knacker/round off the dogs.
With the box assembled and held i a vice, you can easily check all this.



Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #731772
04/13/18 9:15 am
04/13/18 9:15 am
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 74
UK - Bucks
Steve Wilson Offline OP

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All back together now - just perceptible play on layshaft and polished camplate - fingers crossed
Bit off topic but - How would the panel suggest I do up the gearbox sprocket nut? Neets 100Lb/ft - Can't lock it up and can't get a socket on it!
Steve


SJW
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #731833
04/13/18 11:16 pm
04/13/18 11:16 pm
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NickL Offline
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Buy an old fashioned 'box/tube spanner' they are cheap enough and use a big tommy bar in it.

Last edited by NickL; 04/13/18 11:19 pm.


Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #731837
04/14/18 12:19 am
04/14/18 12:19 am
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,252
New Jersey USA
Tridentman Offline

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Steve--the BSA specialists all sell the box spanner/wrench that Nick refers to.
Used to be made by Metco in UK if I remember correctly.
HTH

Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #731856
04/14/18 4:15 am
04/14/18 4:15 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,363
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Owego, NY, USA
Hmm, easier before the gear cluster goes in (I know, hindsight is 20-20).

And don't worry too much about an exact torque spec - just get it as tight as you can; the locktab washer does a good job of keeping it in place.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #731883
04/14/18 5:39 pm
04/14/18 5:39 pm
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Posts: 3,646
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DMadigan Offline
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If you cannot find a boxtube spanner you can weld a 1/2" drive 1" socket on the back of a 3/4" drive 1.5" socket. That will get you over the mainshaft to secure the nut. To hold the sprocket. weld or pin a piece of old chain on the end of a bar and wrap the chain around the sprocket.

Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #731893
04/14/18 7:31 pm
04/14/18 7:31 pm
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,085
Bolton Lancs UK
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Andy Higham Offline
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Bolton Lancs UK
For my B31 I bought a cheap 3/4" square drive impact socket, I bored the square out to clear the mainshaft and milled a hexagon on the outside.
I put another socket on the hexagon and used my battery rattle gun to tighten the sprocket
[Linked Image]20160302_171443_zpssscfo0ky by Sigma Projects, on Flickr


1955 BSA B31 500cc "Stargazer"
1962 Greeves 200cc "Blue Meanie"
1962/67 Greeves 350
1967 Greeves 360 Challenger
1984 Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500cc sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500cc "Llareggub"
2003 Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #731907
04/14/18 10:54 pm
04/14/18 10:54 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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I use a Mini ball joint socket, https://www.minispares.com/product/classic/TOOL03.aspx not this one, mine is poorer looking, careful mini owners will borrow it.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #732211
04/17/18 7:02 pm
04/17/18 7:02 pm
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 113
Pittsburgh,Pa.
R
Redd32 Offline
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Is the camplate hardened? Could it be welded up and reshapped?

Re: Gearchange Camplatebut does it work? [Re: Steve Wilson] #732216
04/17/18 7:30 pm
04/17/18 7:30 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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Posts: 3,746
argyll. scotland, uk
Not very, judging by the way the plunger can plough through it.
Yes, weld up the wear and grind/ polish back to profile.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod

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