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kelvin
kelvin
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Re: mail-order LSR [Re: NickL] #724218
02/04/18 4:28 am
02/04/18 4:28 am
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
Originally Posted by NickL
I thought i'd 'chime in' here regarding EI setups, ignore it if you wish/have any sense.............

Supply borne interference is one of the biggest problems with digital electronics on vehicles.
Manufacturers use Transils/Transorbs to quench load dump spikes from things like starter motors and large solenoids,
these devices are highly inductive loads which give big back EMF spikes when de-energised. The Transil is in effect a
zener diode that has the ability to absorb a great deal of power very quickly at a specified level.
The fact that the sensor leads on digital ignitions on these old heaps are quite long also adds to the problems.
Pickup from the HT can be absorbed by the supply and/or sensor leads and either damage or affect the functionality
of the clock within a micro or the high impedance inputs of any cmos type chips.
The use of a zener diode on the supply close to the ignition module will certainly help. A standard 18V 5W device
with a 0.1uf film type capacitor across it improves matters considerably. The sensor leads are a little more difficult
to deal with, you can run a sleeved screen braid over the wires earthed at the ignition box end only. Direct suppression of the
sensor by connecting decoupling capacitors etc to the leads is not a good idea as it normally affects the sensor operation.
Resistor type plug caps or leads are a must.
Another point is that as aftermarket manufacturers in the main do not have a capacitor fitted on the coil drive output,
the resultant high voltage spike which may be generated if a plug is fouled or disconnected is only absorbed by the
included output device protection, ie the internal protection zeners of the output IGBT or any Darlington used. These
normally have a 400v or so threshold. In effect the coil drive wire could be the source of high voltage spikes so seperation
from sensor leads is a good idea. If you have access to a meter which will read capacitance, read between the coil
wire and the Neg wire, if the meter reads near zero you can fit a 0.1uf 400v MKT type capacitor here, this will help
keep the voltage spike lower if one is generated.

As i stated, i know absolutely bugger all about this stuff, i've never had anything to do with it so any advice given may
be used to insult me as you wish.

Nick


^^^that's thought-provoking information, nick. right now i'm running the old ARD magneto, and will be using the chinese microwave diodes in the plug wires to make the twin-plug head work. i ran the ARD last time, and aside from points bounce it worked okay. i wasn't too worried about the points bouncing because i was using a twin-tower coil with the magneto set for dual spark-- no rotor, so there's a waste spark. with the twin plug head i'll have to change coils and put a rotor back in.

but i've been on the telephone with leo goff, who has had another head of mine for quite some time, but has been slowed down for health reasons. he reccommends a more modern ignition system, like a tri-spark or pazon, for a number of good reasons. i believe in taking informed advice if i ask for it, so i've got a pazon to put on the bike when i try out his head work.

that means your comments on the supply zener and shielding the three-foot sensor leads are directly relevant to the next step with this bike. the pazon already has resistor caps.

i've never heard of adding a capacitor to the coil wire with an EI. would routing the coil drive wire far away from the sensor wires be good enough? the less things to go wrong in the system, the happier i am. i love th emagneto because of reduces the number of compents to fail, but i'm going to give it up eventually.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #724221
02/04/18 5:11 am
02/04/18 5:11 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,515
Aus
N
NickL Online content
BritBike Forum member
NickL  Online Content
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N
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,515
Aus
Kevin, like you i love mags, it's the character of 'em. Like valves/tubes over transistors.........blimey i'm showing my age.

Most of the time the cap won't be necessary but on a few occasions it has done the trick for me. Use as a last resort if you don't have a 'scope to measure.
Most induced interference is due to very high rise times on the spikes, the cap will slow and absorb these.

I've had the discussion about EI's having a capacitor fitted before, and was told i was talking rubbish as they all do and that the ignition will not work without one!
In reply i stated, 'If you measure the output you can tell'. I never heard any more, not even an acknowledgement of my question.
With points the cap does form part of a tuned circuit as the illustrious MM and JH state but it is an arc quench first and if you take into account the characteristics of a
standard ignition coil the increase in resonant frequency with no cap fitted is of little consequence. So on 99% of EI's the cap is omitted as no arc quench is required and
the output semiconductor can be better protected with zeners which is what the manufacturers do. (They must all be wrong too i guess.)
Another point to consider is that nearly all coils have different values in terms of primary and secondary inductance, capacitance, impedance, leakage inductance etc. etc.
the good old 0.22uf cap fitted with points will vary the resonant frequency enormously if fitted to EI's with varying coil manufacturers and types.What value do you use?
As i am not a professor or doctor or indeed anything other than a prole i must be wrong, so i gave up. 'Think i'll go and eat worms!'



Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #724487
02/06/18 1:49 pm
02/06/18 1:49 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
still 100.5 on the exhaust. advanced.

surely not . . . .


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #724495
02/06/18 2:34 pm
02/06/18 2:34 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,356
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,356
Running from demons in WNY
Kevin, what lift figures are you using before and after maximum lift to get the lobe center? If not already, use .100 instead of .040 that you may be using?


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #725119
02/11/18 12:32 am
02/11/18 12:32 am
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
still looking, tony. was working nights and so went straight to the rack after work.

i was using 0.050, but switched to 0.075 or so, and things look somewhat better. back on a day schedule now.

my interest is in record keeping, as i'm planning toi retard the cams anyway on reasembly. but i wanted to know where i was at getting the speeds i had before.

shoo

up at 0400 tomorrow to drive another 14 hours. time to hit the sack again.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #725164
02/11/18 11:04 am
02/11/18 11:04 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,996
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Online happy

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Rich B  Online Happy

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R
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,996
Stone Creek OH USA
Hey kevin, your name was in the local paper......their was an article about your wife’s political campaign. I was disappointed.....article said “her husband Kevin is a truck driver.” Not a word about LSR : eek


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #725265
02/12/18 1:26 am
02/12/18 1:26 am
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
lol, are you in the district she's running in?

i try to stay in the background. i did her website, but anonymously

https://www.shawnarobertsforcongress2018.org/

i can't get decent video of her. maybe when she talks at the quaker school this week.

give me a reference to the newspaper article and i'll put it on the website. she was on television news yesterday, i think. i'm not sure, as we don't own a television set.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #725295
02/12/18 10:32 am
02/12/18 10:32 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,996
Stone Creek OH USA
R
Rich B Online happy

BritBike Forum member
Rich B  Online Happy

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R
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,996
Stone Creek OH USA
I know I am not in the district, but parts of the area covered by the district is in the area the paper is distributed. I haven’t seen the article on the Times Reporter website, but I really haven’t looked. It was in the print edition.


Life is too short to drink cheap, bad beer.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #725749
02/15/18 10:58 pm
02/15/18 10:58 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
looks like its a shoe-in for her to get the primary. her serious competition bowed out for health, the next one was short three signatures on his petition . . .

you need 50 signatures. he had 47 . . .

. . . and the last one is someone who runs every election as a hobby.

so she'll be running officially all year. we'll see what happens. if the incumbent has a stroke or gets caught creeping on little girls she'll be washington by christmas. or she might get more votes. who knows?


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #725754
02/15/18 11:19 pm
02/15/18 11:19 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Kevin, what lift figures are you using before and after maximum lift to get the lobe center? If not already, use .100 instead of .040 that you may be using?


okay, took it very slow and serious, and wobbled the cam nose back and forth 0.100 to either side, which was surely enough. the cam centerlines that gave me 128 mph are at 101.5 degrees for the intake, and 104 degrees for the exhaust. both advanced a bit from what i wanted by a degree or so. megacycle reccommends starting out with 103 and 105 for this cam.

i'll be cranking these back to 104 and 107 before i clay them again, based on some good advice. one keyway ought to give me 104 on the intake, and another keyway on the exhaust might do 106.5. could get even closer if they're not cut accurately. who knows?


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #725793
02/16/18 12:16 pm
02/16/18 12:16 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,888
Asheville, NC
Mike Baker Online content
BritBike Forum member
Mike Baker  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,888
Asheville, NC
Those are the numbers I've gotten on my race bike, Kev. It pulls hard coming out of corners and keeps making power till I roll out of the throttle. Might be interesting to mark the camwheels at different timing numbers so you could quickly change timing at the track and just see what more torque or more top end will do for your best speed.

Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #725804
02/16/18 2:27 pm
02/16/18 2:27 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,356
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,356
Running from demons in WNY
105-107 on my bike got the Kewpie Doll


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Mike Baker] #725820
02/16/18 5:26 pm
02/16/18 5:26 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Mike Baker
Those are the numbers I've gotten on my race bike, Kev. It pulls hard coming out of corners and keeps making power till I roll out of the throttle. Might be interesting to mark the camwheels at different timing numbers so you could quickly change timing at the track and just see what more torque or more top end will do for your best speed.


i'd love to try that, but i may still be messing with intake and exhaust length. i was faztest with 38- inch pipes, 1 5/8 in diameter. if i change cam tiing tbat may no longer work. ditto carbs, right now theyre on the shortest stubs i have, but i can move them out 5 inches, 4 inches and 3 inches


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: Hillbilly bike] #725821
02/16/18 5:29 pm
02/16/18 5:29 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content OP

fefsa
kevin roberts  Online Content OP

fefsa
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,657
ohio, usa
Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
105-107 on my bike got the Kewpie Doll


i'll settle for that little piece of paper.

have to see where tbe keyways turn up.


live every day.
die once.
Re: mail-order LSR [Re: kevin roberts] #725824
02/16/18 5:56 pm
02/16/18 5:56 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,356
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
BritBike Forum member
Hillbilly bike  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,356
Running from demons in WNY
104-106 is close enough .......You may have to change exhaust pipe length to match the cam timing


650 Triumph modified production LSR record holder 133.1 MPH... Twin 650 engine Triumph LSR that goes sorta fast...
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