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A65 Engine Back Into the Frame #725198
02/11/18 4:23 pm
02/11/18 4:23 pm
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 84
GA
E
eelmgren Offline OP
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eelmgren  Offline OP
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E

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 84
GA
My '70 A65 is finally going back together. I hadn't removed the cylinders, getting the engine back into the fame was a real PIA.

I'd read old posts (that I can't seem to find again) with advice on coaxing the engine back into the frame. Some said it was easier, and recommended, putting the rear mount horns on after installing the engine. If the engine is in the frame, how do you get the lower engine mount bolt in? The sheet metal guard over the drive sprocket is off, but there still isn't room to fit the bolt.
Looks like I may have to pull the engine out again.

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Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: eelmgren] #725204
02/11/18 5:10 pm
02/11/18 5:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,116
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,116
argyll. scotland, uk
Before you fit the motor, fit the drive side rear plate loosely with the wee bolt to the lower of the two on the case, this bolt is nearly impossible to get in any other way.
The timing side plate can go on after its all in place., , I havent tried fitting the whole lump in a long time, I leave all the heavy stuff, top end , gear box , clutch till after the cases are fitted. Complete , an A65 motor weighs about 140 lbs, I cant manage this on my own.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: eelmgren] #725234
02/11/18 7:51 pm
02/11/18 7:51 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,261
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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leon bee  Offline
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L

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,261
arkansas
The two bolts going through engine case? They go in from different directions. The bottom one, I think, seems like it won't go if the black plate is in place. The bolt goes in from the right. Have the mounting plate loose in your hand in there, with the smaller bolt through it. Offer up the whole works and that bolt will just go. Upper bolt in from the left. Then the frame bolts. More or less.

Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: eelmgren] #725237
02/11/18 8:16 pm
02/11/18 8:16 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,116
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,116
argyll. scotland, uk
The gearbox bulge means the lower rear case bolt can only go in from the drive side, totally impossible to fit from timing side, the upper bolt goes in from the timing side.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: eelmgren] #725241
02/11/18 8:52 pm
02/11/18 8:52 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,261
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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leon bee  Offline
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L

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,261
arkansas
I just did this about 2 weeks ago. But my memory is only good for about one week. At any rate, don't pull the engine all those bolts will go. Think Gavin is correct, but you need the black plate loose.

Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: eelmgren] #725254
02/11/18 10:43 pm
02/11/18 10:43 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,116
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,116
argyll. scotland, uk
I have fitted the difficult lower bolt last , when I forgot to prefit the DS plate on first installation, it takes a bit of jiggery pokery, I had a helper pry the lump up a bit at the back and just got it in, buts it is a pure ball ache to do.
Quoting from the 1970 manual, page B17, "Replacing the Engine unit,
Having completed the overhaul of the engine, it should be complete with kickstarter and foot change levers and rear engine plates loosely fitted. Lift the unit into the frame from the LHS and position the front mounting lug below the frame lug and the rear mounting above the frame lug, then lever the mountings into position.".. then stuff about fitting the mounting bolts, with the lower centre as a last fit. On my OIF I just fit the DS plate with the one difficult lower bolt loosely held with the nut temp fitted to the TS, I can get the TS plate on afterwards, the dry frame may be different , its ages since I worked on one of them

Note there should be a shim/washer/ packing piece between the motor lower centre mount and the frame, if you leave this out and spring the frame to close the gap you will feel a lot more vibration.



71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: gavin eisler] #725327
02/12/18 4:46 pm
02/12/18 4:46 pm
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 84
GA
E
eelmgren Offline OP
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eelmgren  Offline OP
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E

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 84
GA
Originally Posted by gavin eisler


Note there should be a shim/washer/ packing piece between the motor lower centre mount and the frame, if you leave this out and spring the frame to close the gap you will feel a lot more vibration.



I got the mount bolt in once I pulled the plate back. I should have seen that. Thanks

I always seem to realize AFTER I have something apart that I didn't take enough photos BEFORE I took it apart. I have the washers that go on the lower mount. I also see a gap between the engine and frame, but the parts diagram appears to show the washers between the bolt head and the frame. Should they go between engine and frame on both the left and right side? I had assumed they might be to line up the drive sprocket with the rear wheel sprocket

Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: eelmgren] #725332
02/12/18 5:46 pm
02/12/18 5:46 pm
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 246
Illinois
Spitfire Ken Online content

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Spitfire Ken  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 246
Illinois
AFTER STRUGGLING WITH THE REAR MOTOR MOUNTS FOR HOURS I REMOVED THE SWING ARM. IT TOOK 10 MINUTES AND MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD.


I APOLOGIZE FOR THE USE OF CAPS. I CAN ONLY TYPE WITH MY RIGHT HAND SO USING THE SHIFT KEY IS BEYOND MY CAPABILITES.

The Devil is in the details.

1957 BSA A10 Spitfire Scrambler (numbers matching, very correct, very nice condition)
1965 BSA A65 Lightning Rocket "Clubman" (restored)
1966 BSA A65 Spitfire MK-II (restored)
1967 BSA A65 West Coast Hornet (under rstoration)
2001 Kawasaki W650
Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: eelmgren] #725341
02/12/18 6:45 pm
02/12/18 6:45 pm
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,261
arkansas
L
leon bee Offline
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leon bee  Offline
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L

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,261
arkansas
On those spacing washers, you want to put back what fits. Not necessarily what came out. What I do is get all the bolts in, then tighten up all that rear mounting. The front frame mount almost always fits nice, if it does I cinch that one up. Then down underneath you fit in on either side what just fits. I leaned years ago here on the forum what a difference this makes. After, that is, I had assembled a bike or two just running up that bottom bolt.

Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: eelmgren] #725348
02/12/18 7:35 pm
02/12/18 7:35 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,116
argyll. scotland, uk
gavin eisler Offline
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gavin eisler  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,116
argyll. scotland, uk
:bigt to Leon.


71 Devimead A65 750
56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
Cagiva Raptor 650
MZ TS 250
The poster formerly known as Pod
Re: A65 Engine Back Into the Frame [Re: NickL] #725393
02/13/18 2:12 am
02/13/18 2:12 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,553
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,553
Owego, NY, USA
Originally Posted by NickL

+1
The price of getting old, i used to hoike the lumps in and out of my outfit years ago, now my back and shoulders remind me i did!


Last two rebuilds, I had to rig up a block and tackle just to install the lower with no primary drive!


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.

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