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Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: RF Whatley] #721931
01/13/18 5:02 pm
01/13/18 5:02 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by RF Whatley
I owned an R60/6 back in the late 70's which was really enjoyable. When it came time to get another distance bike, about the only thing of interest to me was a period R100. Easy to ride, easy to fix, BMW still makes all the parts. What's not to like ?

Now here's a strange story.... I was reading on one of the interwebs last August about a recall on pre-1981cast front wheels. I thought, that's interesting, my bike falls in that year range. So I went and checked, and sure enough my front wheel had never been replaced by a dealer. So I called the USA BMW Warranty Center and caused a real commotion. The recall was from 1984 which pre-dated both general computer use and BMW's computerized database. They had to call me back after they'd had time to manually find a copy. Long story short, they honored it. Sent a brand new wheel from Germany and directed me to a local dealer. On the prescribed day I drove the bike to the local BMW dealer, and they installed and balanced a new cast wheel, with all new bearings, seals, axle, inner tube, etc at zero cost to me. I had taken a new tire with me, but expected to at least pay for grease and the inner tube. Nope, the bill was zero. The dealer showed me the final bill and it was well over $1000 at dealer prices. He also told me, at 38 years it was the oldest warranty claim work they had ever done.

laughing


If I owned a bike and the company did me that way, I'd probably never buy any other brand. THAT's standing behind your product.

After dealing with Moto Guzzi, EVERYONE else looks good though. What a pain that company is ...

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
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Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: Lannis] #721941
01/13/18 7:41 pm
01/13/18 7:41 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,264
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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North Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by Lannis
If I owned a bike and the company did me that way, I'd probably never buy any other brand. THAT's standing behind your product.

After dealing with Moto Guzzi, EVERYONE else looks good though. What a pain that company is ...

Lannis


Well, in true Joel Chandler Harris / southern story teller style, I have not told every grizzly detail of this adventure. When I first approached the local dealer they told me, "No way !" flat out. That's when I called BMW USA. Apparently, BMW USA had zero information on the bikes we call Airheads. The last Airhead was sold in 1995, and their computer system only went back to ~1998. So there was a lot of sweet-talking going down on my side of the phone. I had to supply copies of the recall and the replacement part numbers to get the ball rolling. Once the guy saw that all the legwork had already been done, he graciously conceded. Then I had to supply photos of my frame and engine numbers, and photos of the wheel casting date. I got the idea he was glad to work on something besides Takata air bags for once !

Then I believe, when he looked at stocking data and saw they had several wheels on hand, but hadn't sold one in 20 years he figured this was a way to reduce surplus inventory and look good fulfilling recall work at the same time. It was downhill after that, and the dealership changed their attitude really fast.

Considering everything, I do feel really blessed. Used wheels on eBay go for $600 and I was no mood for that. But neither was I in the mood for a catastrophic wheel failure either ! So it all turned out really good.

The date of death !

The wheel of death

The replacement wheel

bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #721945
01/13/18 8:07 pm
01/13/18 8:07 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Well, that DOES sound a bit more like what Moto Guzzi has been doing to its customers concerning the 8-valve engine cam followers.

Moto Guzzi made 1200cc engines from 2008 - 2011 in two varieties - 8 valve and 4 valve (total valves in a twin).

It turns out that for ALL 8-valve engines in the Stelvio and Griso models, they improperly manufactured the cam followers, which were a "flat tappet" type.

The "DLC" (diamond-like carbon) facing on the followers that bore against the cam was not done correctly, and after a few thousand miles, the hard-facing would start flaking off (into the oiling system and HOPEFULLY into the filter screen but ...?), the cam and follower would start to erode, and the engine would start getting noisy. Often the DLC flakes had gotten into the bearings and the whole engine was trashed.

I had almost 40,000 miles on my engine before I heard about the problem. The normal engine half-life was anything from 4,000 miles to 10,000 miles; I don't think I've run across anyone in the Guzzi world who had as many miles as I did without trashing the engine.

So I had my engine taken apart and found that although the hard-facing was discolored from heat and close to destruction, non of it was missing and the followers were still intact.

Even though EVERY SINGLE ONE of these engines failed if run past a few thousand miles, and even though Moto Guzzi changed the parts to "roller tappets" so that it wouldn't happen in mid 2011, Guzzi would never admit that they had done anything wrong, and attributed every failure to user neglect.

BUT, they said, out of the goodness of their hearts and despite rampant abuse by the owners of just these models and years of bike (no others had this problem), they offered that if:

1) You took the bike apart at your expense

2) Took close-up photos of the damage and sent it to them

3) They determined that something didn't look right about it ...

THEN they would send you a repair kit, which you would install at your own expense (about $1000 at a dealer) that would replace the flat tappets with rollers.

Since mine hadn't actually come to pieces and destroyed the engine, they didn't want to do mine. I have to give my dealer credit for talking Guzzi into it; they worked with me very well.

On the side, Fay got tired of listening to Guzzi waffling and making my-wife-she ... and my-dog-it ... excuses for why they didn't want to make it right, and wandered into the showroom and picked out a new Triumph Trophy SE, and even though we got the Stelvio back and running better than ever, we're riding them both now ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #721953
01/13/18 11:25 pm
01/13/18 11:25 pm
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 745
GA
David in Atlanta Offline
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GA
Nice wheel Richard! Who did the warranty work?


David in Atlanta
73 BMW R75/5

http://tinyurl.com/beautiful-Anna


Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: Lannis] #721979
01/14/18 8:09 am
01/14/18 8:09 am
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,164
Kent Garden of England
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And to round that yarn off Lannis lad, I *Loaned* that very Stelvio, then along with Mark (The Prospect) my son, we rode all over the East coast, along with Lannis & Fay. Went to Blowing Rock, had a wonderful ride of over 3000 miles. I broke the pannier lock on it, BUT the ride was So Darn good, Mark went and started the laborious process of passing he's motorcycle test... shocked

He's almost finished that test, and has the money saved up for his very first BIG bike, so me and him can ride to Poland, one day to visit his girlfriend's parents. So all that was possible due to the problems of them dealers... bigt grin


I'm from the SOUTH, the Deep South
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #721991
01/14/18 12:10 pm
01/14/18 12:10 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,930
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Online content
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Running from demons in WNY
I have only ridden one BMW, a 1960's 500 or maybe it was a 600?..It was smooth and very slow.....A good friend has a 71 750 he has owned for 25 years but hasn't been ridden in the last 10 years..The bike is on the work stand and I was recently helping him get it running..To me it was a strange mixture of sound and "funny" engineering...Surprisingly spindly forks and frame..The rear sub frame looks inadequate for a 250..Servicing the engine was easy .The usual odd European wiring..Never the less I found the bike interesting and considered buying it....But not...


I ride dinosaurs....
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: Kent Shaun] #721994
01/14/18 1:15 pm
01/14/18 1:15 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by Kent Shaun
And to round that yarn off Lannis lad, I *Loaned* that very Stelvio, then along with Mark (The Prospect) my son, we rode all over the East coast, along with Lannis & Fay. Went to Blowing Rock, had a wonderful ride of over 3000 miles. I broke the pannier lock on it, BUT the ride was So Darn good, Mark went and started the laborious process of passing he's motorcycle test... shocked

He's almost finished that test, and has the money saved up for his very first BIG bike, so me and him can ride to Poland, one day to visit his girlfriend's parents. So all that was possible due to the problems of them dealers... bigt grin


And one FINAL round-off of the yarn (I wasn't very clear about it), it was Moto Guzzi headquarters that was being a pain the royal arse about it; the dealer was wonderful, worked with us every step, and that's why we bought another motorcycle from them ... Moto Richmond, they are, purveyors of Triumph, Guzzi, Aprilia, and everything Piaggio ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: David in Atlanta] #722042
01/14/18 8:21 pm
01/14/18 8:21 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,264
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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RF Whatley  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,264
North Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by David in Atlanta
Nice wheel Richard! Who did the warranty work?

The work was done by Hourglass Cycles in Buford, GA... not becasue they helped in any way, but only becasue they were the closest dealer. Their initial message was a barrage of negatives.... that recall has expired... there's no more wheels... can't be done... and so on. Then after BMW USA called them it was.... glad to help... appreciate your business... you came to the right place... shocked

RicochetRider
is correct. I wouldn't buy a new BMW even if I won the lottery. After they are 5-8 years old, all the issues are understood and well-documented thanks to on-line resources. Then you can fix it and have a great ride.

The problem, as I understand it, is that BMW motorcycles used to be a separate division within the company. That was back when they were imported by Butler & Smith. Then the automobile division swallowed the motorcycle business, fired B&S, and took over everything. That's when the car-like designs of the 4-cyl, water cooled, K-bikes started showing up, and the vaunted German engineering "went to heck in a handbasket".

beerchug


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: RF Whatley] #722043
01/14/18 8:27 pm
01/14/18 8:27 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by RF Whatley


The problem, as I understand it, is that BMW motorcycles used to be a separate division within the company. That was back when they were imported by Butler & Smith. Then the automobile division swallowed the motorcycle business, fired B&S, and took over everything. That's when the car-like designs of the 4-cyl, water cooled, K-bikes started showing up, and the vaunted German engineering "went to heck in a handbasket".

beerchug


I think I'm not remembering through rose-colored glasses that the old airhead BMWs (pre-absorbed-by-the-car-division) really WERE built differently from other bikes, and you could actually differentiate the quality and functionality from their American and Italian and Japanese competition of the day.

The beautiful paint, the distances they would run between rebuilds, their reliability really was higher than anyone else's in the day.

Today, our experience with our buddies on BMWs certainly doesn't say that. There are BMWs that have run a long, long way with no trouble, but there are many other brands that will do the same thing for (sometimes) half the money, and BMWs with failed rear drives and broken electronics populate every bike site ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: ricochetrider] #722223
01/16/18 10:59 am
01/16/18 10:59 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,168
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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Gnashville
Originally Posted by ricochetrider


BMW's shifting has always been clunky. I "pre-load" the shift lever with some pressure before I pul in the clutch lever, and it makes a huge difference in how smoothly the bike shifts. I do this on my more "modern" Beemer, and was doing it on Dave's older one. Kev, you might try this on the Goose, maybe it''ll help out.

I need to try this on my K100rs. It simply does not wish to shift up into third until it's warm. Mind you it always shifts better when I hold out to at least 6K in each gear.
Doesn't help that I occasionally lift up with my right foot and wonder why it won't shift. laughing


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722229
01/16/18 2:12 pm
01/16/18 2:12 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,058
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline OP
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GrandPaul  Offline OP
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
hee hee Yeah, I got on the Beemer after it warmed up, kicked up the sidestand and started to brake it into 1st!


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722275
01/16/18 8:18 pm
01/16/18 8:18 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,058
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline OP
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
From Thursday Jan 11th- I took the gas tank down to the car wash and sprayed it out thoroughly, let it dry in the sun, then pounded on it with the palm of my hand to knock the last few flakes of crud off, then snaked a thin vacuum cleaner nozzle around the bottom and sucked out the remnants. Finally, dumped the old oil & filter, cleaned the sump pan, flushed the tranny, then refilled everything including the rear gear and driveshaft tunnel.

From yesterday 1/15 - Still waiting on the new battery, but the weather is supposed to get colder again tomorrow, so I popped the new petcocks on the bike, installed my backup battery, jump-started the bike and warmed it up, then made sure it would re-fire on the kicker, and off I went for a quick spin around the neighborhood.

The bike is quite cold-blooded, took 3 or 4 minutes on the choke till it would even nominally respond to the throttle positively.

Yep, it's an old boxer alright, pogo-sticking on and off throttle. FUN!

[Linked Image]


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: RF Whatley] #722330
01/17/18 11:01 am
01/17/18 11:01 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,168
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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Gnashville
Originally Posted by RF Whatley

The problem, as I understand it, is that BMW motorcycles used to be a separate division within the company. That was back when they were imported by Butler & Smith. Then the automobile division swallowed the motorcycle business, fired B&S, and took over everything. That's when the car-like designs of the 4-cyl, water cooled, K-bikes started showing up, and the vaunted German engineering "went to heck in a handbasket".

beerchug

BMW was on the verge of discontinuing motorcycle production. The K bikes saved them. They actually had planned to build an opposed 4, but were beat to it by Honda. They couldn't be seen as copying, so they redesigned and we got the 'Flying Brick.'
It's pretty neat in some ways, you can do the top or bottom end with the engine in frame. However, the ease of maintenance of the R models is gone. Geez, I can't even get the battery out without removing the brain box, and don't even ask what has to come off to change the air filter.
They tell me that I should regularly grease the splines on the drive shaft (for some reason, the best grease for this is sold by Honda.) I'm NOT looking forward to this task With luck it can wait until I need a rear tire.
Mine has ABS brakes. I haven't been caught in the rain, so I don't know if they work. Apparently PO found it less expensive to send the control unit to some guy in Japan for repair than to buy a new one when it stopped working.
The fuel injection is nice, though. Flip the cold-start lever, thumb the button and it fires right up every time, as long as the side stand is up, ride away immediately.
Handles like a truck, but it will cruise all day at 80-100mph and accelerates like a turbine.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722335
01/17/18 11:15 am
01/17/18 11:15 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,168
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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DavidP  Offline

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Gnashville
Proper BMW riding attire.
[Linked Image]


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722353
01/17/18 2:51 pm
01/17/18 2:51 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,058
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline OP
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GrandPaul  Offline OP
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Tres chic!


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: DavidP] #722356
01/17/18 3:17 pm
01/17/18 3:17 pm
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by DavidP
Proper BMW riding attire.
[Linked Image]



"Langlitz Leathers" has been selling these breeches for 70 years now ....

[Linked Image]

They look as comfortable and practical as all get-out, and have been worn by cops and military riders for years with much satisfaction ....

... but I'm not a cop or a squaddie, and I've never come close to having the nerve to wear something like this out in public. I've never seen a pair on the road worn by a civilian, and I don't want to be the first. Strange, since I don't normally care much about what other people think, but there are limits and I've never known anyone else to cross that line either ....

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722370
01/17/18 5:12 pm
01/17/18 5:12 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,058
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Offline OP
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GrandPaul  Offline OP
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Posts: 7,058
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I never understood the purpose of the side flares...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722407
01/17/18 10:59 pm
01/17/18 10:59 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,563
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Online content

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Online Content

Moto Mojo

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,563
Pennsyltuckey
Quite practical, really. You can store stuff in there.... loaves of bread, Kleenex,, a 6 pack, gauntlets, extra socks, a change of clothimg, kittens... it's endless.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722431
01/18/18 2:51 am
01/18/18 2:51 am
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Lannis Offline

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Lannis  Offline

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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 12,935
Central Virginia
Originally Posted by GrandPaul
I never understood the purpose of the side flares...


They're so that when you sit down on the bike (horse, whatever), the pants don't "bind" on your thighs and crotch.

Lots of room for everything to be comfortable .... maybe not the kitten, though.

Lannis


I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is really going to be upset.
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: Lannis] #722454
01/18/18 5:50 am
01/18/18 5:50 am
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,164
Kent Garden of England
Kent Shaun Offline
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Kent Shaun  Offline
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Kent Garden of England
Hey Lannis lad, will a Chihuahua fit in there, I could get me a pair, then take Harry the Bastard out for a ride... grin


I'm from the SOUTH, the Deep South
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722457
01/18/18 6:33 am
01/18/18 6:33 am
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,066
Christchurch NZ
R Moulding Offline
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R Moulding  Offline
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Christchurch NZ
I had an experience with a BMW rider recently that put me off the mark for good. Bike was fairly late model, 2000 and something and had a telelever fork. On checking it for a Warrant of fitness I found the telelever ball joint had a noticeable amount of movement along with a discernible knock. I brought the customer into the workshop and showed him explaining that the bike was going to fail the test. He explained that there was clearly nothing wrong with it as he had just been travelling at 160 kph and was still alive!

He left somewhat upset and later phoned and complained to the Boss that the WOF inspector (me) was looking for faults with the bike!

Rod

Last edited by R Moulding; 01/18/18 6:36 am.

So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth;
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth!
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: Lannis] #722464
01/18/18 10:46 am
01/18/18 10:46 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,168
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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DavidP  Offline

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Posts: 5,168
Gnashville
Those leather jodhpurs look kinky.
Mine are wool, East German surplus.
Still need to find a riding crop to complete the ensemble.

With all the carjackings in town lately I might wish to carry my Luger as well.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: GrandPaul] #722466
01/18/18 10:59 am
01/18/18 10:59 am
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 5,168
Gnashville
DavidP Offline

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Gnashville
Originally Posted by GrandPaul


Yep, it's an old boxer alright, pogo-sticking on and off throttle. FUN!


That's one thing they solved with the Paralever rear end. Two U-joints, no hopping about on acceleration or shifting.


Stepping on others doesn't make you stand tall.

71 A65L "Zelda"
92 BMW K100rs "Gustav"
72 T120V cafe project "Mr. Jim"
72 T150V yet to be named
Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: DavidP] #722467
01/18/18 11:18 am
01/18/18 11:18 am
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,668
OZ
Triless Online content
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Triless  Online Content
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Posts: 1,668
OZ
Good grief ! Please tell us your mail aeroplanes won't be making a visit to Guernica again !

Re: Rod & Tappet - Anything goes? BMW? [Re: R Moulding] #722491
01/18/18 3:25 pm
01/18/18 3:25 pm
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,489
melbourne florida
B
bodine031 Offline
BritBike Forum member
bodine031  Offline
BritBike Forum member
B

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,489
melbourne florida
Going to be stupid better be tough!!!

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