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Speed Twin 1939
#721052 01/04/18 3:19 pm
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Hi everybody,
I’m new in this forum.
I’m looking to identify a Triumph Speed Twin from 1939. The frame has the prefix TF **** (Triumph Frame) whereas it should have the prefix TH **** (Triumph Heavy). According to my documentation, this is possible for models released late 1939.
More problematic, the engine has the prefix T100 ***** which is that of a Tiger and not that of a Speed Twin which should be 9 (for 1939) -5T *****. According to the owner, T100 engines were mounted in 5T frames at the end of the same year 1939.
This is possible given the declaration of war that occurred a few months earlier and the reconversion of factories for the purpose of conflict. But I do not find any trace in my books.
Could someone confirm or deny this information ?
I already thank the experts in Triumph pre-war.
Greeting from Belgium.
Michel.

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Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721058 01/04/18 3:39 pm
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Hi and welcome!

Maybe you already know this site, https://sites.google.com/site/rigidframetriumph/features/home I get that impression from reading your post :-)
It has some very good information about the early bikes, hopefully it is true...

Cheers

HÃ¥kan


5T 1946
T100 1953
T100T 1968
T120R 1970
T140E 1979
Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721063 01/04/18 3:52 pm
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Hi Michel--first of all--a very warm welcome to the forum.
Cant comment on the frame but ref the engine----just over a month ago I bought two "Triumphs" from Virginia here in US.
They originated from Banbury in UK.
One was a 1951 6T Thunderbird basket case.
But the other was a late 50s Triton racing bike.
It has a 1956 Manx Norton frame and is fitted with a 1939 T100 engine.
The stampings on the engine--which look totally genuine to me -- are: 9 T100 18092
The 9 means 1939.
The T100 is obviously the model--Tiger 100 and the other number is the unique sequence number.
In the same batch of items I bought there was also a set of crankcases for a 1940 5T.
It is now of course a long time ago but I guess that at the time they were not considering us poor guys trying to figure things out nearly 80 years on!
Added to which as you say they were converting PDQ to war time work and I would imagine that accurate stamping was not at the top of the list of priorities.
HTH

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721068 01/04/18 4:00 pm
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You might my thread of 3rd December 2017 headed "New Purchase Questions" to be of interest.
HTH

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721075 01/04/18 4:56 pm
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I do not worry about the frame because all informations converge.
What is disturbing is that the engine is for Tiger and hit T100 ***** without the 9-T100 *****!
I hope you can help me.
Happy new year 2018.

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721085 01/04/18 6:16 pm
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Michel----thank you--and Happy New Year to you too.
I am on the same learning curve as you about these pre war twin engines.
I can understand your concern about the lack of the "9" prefix on the engine number.
My 1939 engine has the prefix "9" and my 1940 crankcases have the prefix "40".
However I have learnt that an easy way to distinguish between pre war (including 1939 and 1940) engines and post war engines is that the pre war engines had a magdyno fitted whereas the post war engines had a separate magneto (flange mounted) and a dynamo.
The difference on the engine crankcases is that the pre war cases had a flat platform behind the cylinders to mount the magdyno whereas the post war units had a triangular flange at the back of the timing side crankcase half.
You can see the flat type mounting in one of the photos on the thread I referenced in one of my earlier postings.
Checking this should help you to determine whether you have a pre war or post war engine.
HTH


Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721093 01/04/18 7:45 pm
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I have a serial number list from Tri-Cor of the UK.

The list says1939 frame numbers begin with prefix "TH" for 5T (Speed Twin) and T90, and "TF" for Tiger 100

Also:
"1937 to 1939:
The year and model were used as a prefix to the engine number.
From 1937 to 1939 the FINAL digit (7, 8, or 9) was added."
Example:

9-T100-45678 (1939 Tiger 100)
9-5T-34567 (1939 5T Speed Twin)

I hope this will be of help.



Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721254 01/06/18 8:16 am
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I received a last picture of the engine number. In examining the photo, I distinguish (finally) the prefix 9.
So it's right an engine T100 Tiger from 1939 in a frame 5T Speed Twin from 1939 too.
What you mind ?
Regards.

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721274 01/06/18 4:34 pm
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I just received the solution from Bob:
"OK that is making more sense !
You have a 1939 Tiger 100, very nice! Engine number 9-T100 20779 matches frame TF 1196. Would have been first registered/exported March 1939."
Thanks you Bob.
Michel.

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721284 01/06/18 6:35 pm
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Looks as if our engines are about 2000 apart.
If yours was March 1939 then I guess mine was very late 1938/very early 1939.
Congratulations on a very rare matching numbers bike.
How did you come across it and buy it?
Perhaps you could post a photo?

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Tridentman #721340 01/07/18 1:23 am
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Originally Posted by Tridentman

Perhaps you could post a photo?



Yes, pictures please, and the more the better :bigt


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


"Every time I listen to AC/DC, so do my neighbors"

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721367 01/07/18 11:06 am
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How do you post pictures on this forum ?

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721369 01/07/18 11:34 am
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Upload your pics to someone like www.postimages.org and then add the links to the photos to a post. Do not use photobucket.com or they will demand $600 for allowing images to be used in forums.

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721464 01/08/18 10:12 am
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[Linked Image]

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721465 01/08/18 10:25 am
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721466 01/08/18 10:48 am
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Hi,
According to the RAL nomenclature, the color is amarande SR331 SR333.50 and the gold lines 052.27.

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721480 01/08/18 3:08 pm
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Two last pictures

url=https://postimages.org/][Linked Image][/url]

[Linked Image]

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721487 01/08/18 4:03 pm
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WOW!!!-great bike, Michel.
That looks to be museum quality.
How long have you owned it?
And----what were the circumstances that lead to you acquiring it?
You are one lucky guy to own that bike!
Congratulations.

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721512 01/08/18 8:18 pm
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DOPE
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holy [***].


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721515 01/08/18 8:29 pm
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Man, I sure wish old bodies could be restored that well.

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721516 01/08/18 8:31 pm
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Very nice, but aren't Tiger 100s silver in colour? These '30s bikes are great to ride. I certainly enjoy my '37 Ariel Red Hunter.

Bruce


1937 Ariel Red Hunter 500
1970 Triumph Bonneville

Making the scene with the gasoline
Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721543 01/09/18 9:25 am
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Hi,
This bike is for sale and I'm going to see it next Sunday to negotiate.
The silver color is for Tiger 100 only. The Speed Twin is amaranth, of course.
Some photos betray the color but others seem to me quite accurates. Do you think the color is accurate (see RAL codes above)?
Michel.

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721590 01/09/18 9:17 pm
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I guess I'm confused. Some of the earlier posts referred to the bike as a Tiger 100 not a Speed Twin. Which is it?

Bruce


1937 Ariel Red Hunter 500
1970 Triumph Bonneville

Making the scene with the gasoline
Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721592 01/09/18 10:37 pm
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I am similarly confused.
Part way through the thread it seemed to firm up that it was a numbers matching 1939 Tiger 100.
Certainly the 1939 Speed Twin (%T) would have been the color in the photos but the 1939 Tiger 100 should have been silver?

Re: Speed Twin 1939
Michel H #721596 01/09/18 11:32 pm
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I tried to blow up the one pic with the engine numbers somewhat visible but I still cannot make out accurately, what they are. However, what I can see makes no sense at all. We definitely need a clear picture of the engine numbers as well as the frame numbers.


It is definitely a 1939/1940 engine, that much is clear.


Jon W.


1957 6T Thunderbird 650
1968 T100R Daytona 500
1971 TR6R Tiger 650
1970 BSA A65F 650
1955 Tiger 100 - Project
1971 BSA A65 650 - Project
1972 Norton Commando 750 "Combat"


"Every time I listen to AC/DC, so do my neighbors"

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