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trackbike
#718254 12/09/17 7:11 pm
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. . . as if i didn't already have enough stuff to do.

but it's winter, and the LSR doesn't really need a lot of attention before the spring season. anyway, i've been hanging around a road race/trackday internet forum here in ohio, which already has some people on it that also post here:

https://ohioriders.net/

turns out there are a couple of race tracks fairly close to me that do road race schools and track days. i'm no more than an average road rider, and don't know squat about turning a motorcycle into turns in any technical way, but there's no time like the present to learn and get better. most of the machines people use on open track days seem to be 600cc japanese sport bikes, which go horribly fast and turn just as well.

i could have run my old T150, except it threw a rod. i could run my commando, but i don't want it to throw a rod too. that leaves a couple of A65s and my old morgo street bike, none of which are really what i have in mind. there's always tony's 97 buell, but even though it's stinking quick and stinking fast, it shifts on the wrong side and i don't want to mess with 40-plus years of muscle memory in right-shift bikes in a track situation.

so i'm going to build a 650 triumph, because i know how and have a bunch of junk lying around, and want something cheap i can fall over on and not feel bad if i scratch it up. although falling over these days takes more time to recover from than it used to.

so here's what i have.



every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
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Re: trackbike
kevin #718258 12/09/17 7:32 pm
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have a unit motor from a 1970 bonneville. i think it's 40 over, but i can't remember. if i keep this to AHRMA classic sixties rules, it'll be on the last acceptable overbore, 060. so that's cheap.

[Linked Image]

got this as a source of emergency spares for the LSR, but that motor seems okay at the moment. have a fresh head too:

[Linked Image]

nothing special about the head, except OS intakes and beehive springs. i ran this to 112 in my LSR (way overgeared . . . ) so it will be a decent starter for this build.

no frame yet, but i have an early unit rear section, battery box, and oil tank:

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

a front frame section should be on its way from georgia soon. i already have motor mounts from some forgotten chopper:

[Linked Image]

. . . and 69-70 forks coming from northern california. clip ons i i already have had for ages, because i was going to put them on my T150:

[Linked Image]

i bought 32mm carbs from hillbilly bike, and i have a pazon that i took off the LSR in order to fit the ARD:

[Linked Image][Linked Image]

this old T150 tank, a hotwings glass seat, an old glass from the past fender somewhere, and an aerotech streamlining fairing are all the bodywork i need:

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]

i've got a pile of V-rated tires

[Linked Image]

and a couple of wheels, including two of these:

[Linked Image] and this

[Linked Image]

what else?

swing arm is in the mail, as are the forks . . .

don't need anything else. the machine will be a skeleton-- minimal bodywork, no lights, no extra bits, a bitsa from leftover things i had lying around mostly. i still have a very few things to gather, but from here it's generally just assembly.




every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718279 12/09/17 10:13 pm
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This is going to be a great project, Kevin. I'm really looking forward to this !

Re: trackbike
kevin #718283 12/10/17 12:47 am
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should be easy, as it's a cheap and cheerful machine. no attempts at historical accuracy, no worries about good-looking parts, just something to learn to road-race on.

some fresh paint will work wonders for making it look professional like.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718299 12/10/17 8:42 am
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Hi Kevin,

Originally Posted by kevin roberts
this old T150 tank,

Risking showering on your parade, a T150 tank doesn't fit a 650 front frame, at least not directly - the T150 frame is an inch longer so, although the tank is based on the dry-frame TR6R one, the rear bracket is longer.

Also, a T150 tank doesn't have the cutouts in the bottom for a 650's ignition coils mountings.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: trackbike
kevin #718326 12/10/17 2:56 pm
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ah, not to worry. the tank does fit a T120 frame, i was told somewhere along the way that it was a trident, obviously bad information. front and rear mounts line up, although the threads are bad in one of the mounting holes.

i'll have to solder a stud in there to replace the bolt that usually goes in from below.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718331 12/10/17 4:11 pm
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Kevin, a great project.....I'm sure you won't sweat about modifying a few parts to fit......I'll drive out to see you on the first race !


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: trackbike
kevin #718339 12/10/17 6:00 pm
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Bring it on, Ohio!
Pegs- either ditch them and mount some passenger pegs on the engine plates or rotate the stock pegs up.
First option you'll need to reverse the shifter and build a brake pedal.
Watch the date codes on those tires. Last thing you want when you're leaned way over and on the brakes is an old hard tire!
I'm looking at doing the Gingerman and Road America races this year. Almost your neighborhood....

Re: trackbike
kevin #718344 12/10/17 6:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Kevin, a great project.....I'm sure you won't sweat about modifying a few parts to fit......I'll drive out to see you on the first race !



i can't put all of this together without modifying everything in it. still have to get some big pieces in hand to see what fits what.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
Mike Baker #718349 12/10/17 7:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Mike Baker
Bring it on, Ohio!
Pegs- either ditch them and mount some passenger pegs on the engine plates or rotate the stock pegs up.
First option you'll need to reverse the shifter and build a brake pedal.
Watch the date codes on those tires. Last thing you want when you're leaned way over and on the brakes is an old hard tire!
I'm looking at doing the Gingerman and Road America races this year. Almost your neighborhood....


my V-rated avon tires are new, take-offs from the LSR when i changed to continentals. should be fine. those others are unused, also avons, 15 years old, but stored in the dark. i'm saving them for my beater A65 street bike.

i hate GP shifting. it makes no sense to my foot unless i stop everything and concentrate each time. i still mess up on my norton occasionally when muscle memory takes over. and i can't keep the kickstart if i use the passenger pegs with a shifter mounted there. i have some of the (expensive) clubman rearsets on my 72, and they work fine, but i'll see whether i can't just make a simple set using some old passenger pegs i have. nothing about them is difficult except making a tight bearing surface for the control pedal to rotate on.

the clubman style lets you mount the pegs on the engine plate and still clear the kickstarter:

[Linked Image]

but they cost US$369. but something like that wouldn't be difficult to cobble together.

Last edited by kevin roberts; 12/10/17 8:16 pm.

every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718357 12/10/17 7:54 pm
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this was the first iteration of my LSR, with the controls mounted on the passenger plates. couldn't get the shifter to clear the kickstart. i'm switching to a handheld starter for that machine, as i can't move the pegs any farther back without violating the rules. this is the frame/seat/tank/rear section i'll be using on the trackbike, btw. i took a lot of it off to minimalize the LSR.

[Linked Image]


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718394 12/11/17 7:14 am
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Trackdays, probably won't matter if the kickstart is still attached, but AHRMA will most likely want to see it removed.

Re: trackbike
kevin #718404 12/11/17 11:59 am
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bump start only? i'm dubious.

my 650 LSR will NOT bump start. i had a guy at wilmington try to help me push it and it almost killed him.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718410 12/11/17 1:40 pm
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the GP style shifting takes a little getting used to but to be honest I much prefer that style, can tend to shift through the box much faster... and often without clutch when going a gear higher whistle


Last edited by Allan Gill; 12/11/17 1:41 pm.

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Re: trackbike
kevin #718429 12/11/17 5:37 pm
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Kickstarters may not be retained on roadracers, except in Class C and Pre-1940 on
Handshift machines only. The kickstarter may be retained on supermoto-type ma
-
chines, provided the lever is equipped with a secondary restraint, such as an elasti

Page 26 (or so) of the rulebook

If we're at the same race, you're welcome to use my rollers

Re: trackbike
kevin #718430 12/11/17 5:39 pm
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Is that bike a full advance magneto?
My racebike will bump easily with the alternator powered Boyer

Re: trackbike
kevin #718431 12/11/17 5:58 pm
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yes, the ARD runs at full advance-- no retard for low speed. one kick to start it, but you can push it all day and not get it spinning fast enough to catch. i have an australian ARD clone casting tbat runs a joe hunt mag, and i was thinking of fitting it, but on a road course retarding tbe low rpm spark seems like a better idea.

but if tbey're satisfied with a bungee on the lever, then a kickstart becomes a non-issue.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
Allan G #718432 12/11/17 6:12 pm
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Originally Posted by Allan Gill
the GP style shifting takes a little getting used to but to be honest I much prefer that style, can tend to shift through the box much faster... and often without clutch when going a gear higher whistle



i think the key is you're likely to be quickest with what feels most natural to you, unless the improvement is substantial. i find if i ride the norton for a week or so, then i get accustommed to it, but if i'm trying to go fast without analyzing my movents, i often revert to to the pattern i'm most used to, and mess up the shift.

i drive a truck for a living, and routinely switch between 5, 8, 10, 13, and 18 speed transmissions. i often don't even notice which i have, and just use muscle memory to shift correctly. doesn't work for me on a bike, though.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718442 12/11/17 7:45 pm
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Gear shift pattern!
This year I have been LSR/sprint/drag racing 3 different bikes, some meetings it was the Greeves and the Aprilia, others were the Greeves and the BSA. The Greeves is right foot 1 up 3 down, the BSA is right foot 1 down 4 up and the Aprilia is left foot 1 down 5 up.
I never mis-shifted all year (touch wood)


BSA B31 500 "Stargazer"
Greeves 200 "Blue Meanie"
Greeves 350
Greeves 360
Suzuki GSX1100 EFE "Sorcerers Apprentice"
GM500 sprint/LSR bike "Deofol"
Jawa 500 "Llareggub"
Aprilia RSV Mille "Lo Stregone"
'35 & '36 OK Supreme
Kawasaki ZZR1400 "Kuro no senshi"
Re: trackbike
kevin #718446 12/11/17 8:06 pm
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Well, it says K/S can be retained on pre 40 and supermoto bikes.
I won't protest you, though

Re: trackbike
kevin #718452 12/11/17 8:59 pm
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i misread the part about supermoto only. if it will bump start, i'm happy. would make the rearsets easier. maybe that's the solution.

i don't know whether it is spark advance or compression that makes the LSR hard to push start, but i've never been able to do it.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718462 12/11/17 10:09 pm
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What happens if you're involved in a minor pile up and the bike stalls out..With no kicker you'll have to bump start or go back to the pits.....Find a fold up T160 kicker....Make a spring loaded ball (like the ball on a rachet) on a retainer pin with a finger pull on to replace the bolt between the hub and kick shaft....Start engine, pull pin and remove kicker...You gonna use an EI on the track bike? You may not want an expensive mag sticking out if you drop it or do a Ben Hur chariot trick with another bike


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: trackbike
Hillbilly bike #718475 12/12/17 12:08 am
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
Start engine, pull pin and remove kicker.


that is not a bad idea at all, assuming the tech people allow me to stow the kickstart lever on the bike. i'll bet a standard agricultural implement pin would fit.

but if i can bump at the line, i can bump it in the middle, assuming the pazon lets it start. their literature says they spark at a lower rpm than a Boyer, so that might be enough.

if my butt hurts too much to bump it again if i tip over, i probably shouldn't ride it either, although my knee still hurts me from kickstarting my suzuki last winter after i tore the cartilage loose. i decided the pain was easier than pushing the bike home in the snow. so maybe smart isn't part of my personality makeup?

if bump starting is required, i'll go EI, rather than make up a roller (which the flat track ie ARD people seem to use . . . )


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: trackbike
kevin #718494 12/12/17 4:16 am
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Y'all are overthinking this. Rules say no kicker.
If you're in a wreck, your race is over. Got to re-tech before they let you back out.
Make sure your bike starts when you need it to and don't stall it. Go race. Done.

Re: trackbike
kevin #718512 12/12/17 12:51 pm
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well, there you are, completely right. simple.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
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