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Oil tank tank repair #700044
06/29/17 5:40 pm
06/29/17 5:40 pm
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NJ USA
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Mori55 Offline OP
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I removed my oil tank to clean it on my 67 Tr6 and a piece of tank was still connected to the top front bracket. It looks like vibration broke it. It's not just the bracket but a strip if the tank that goes into the seam about a 1/2 inch by 1-1/2.
I want to repair but I need to clean out the tank first but I don't want to use anything flammable. The tank has no rust at all.
If I can figure how to post a image I will.

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Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700052
06/29/17 6:13 pm
06/29/17 6:13 pm
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NJ USA
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Mori55 Offline OP
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Would that purple power stuff be good to use ? I know it's strong and screws aluminum Not sure what's in the tank or if has a coating. Don't want to make it worse

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700063
06/29/17 6:54 pm
06/29/17 6:54 pm
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Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Offline
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eBay lists lots of these tanks. Look at them, buy one. Problem solved.

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Irish Swede] #700065
06/29/17 7:39 pm
06/29/17 7:39 pm
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Mori55 Offline OP
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I looked. None of them even looked close to as good as the one I have. Most were dented up and rusted. The one I have has no rust or dents. We're the problem is I can have welded.

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700067
06/29/17 7:43 pm
06/29/17 7:43 pm
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Mori55 Offline OP
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Here's I pic I hooe[img]http://[IMG]http://i131.photobucket.com/al...-7989-47DD-8ADA-DD7A99CF40F6_1.jpg[/img][/img]
Were the piece is missing in have it fits right back in like a glove. There a excellent guy down the street who can weld it real nice for about 20 bucks.

Last edited by Mori55; 06/29/17 7:47 pm.
Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700069
06/29/17 7:54 pm
06/29/17 7:54 pm
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Mori55 Offline OP
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This is typical of the [censored] on eBay.
http://m.eBay.com/itm/Triumph-T120-Bonneville-TR6-6T-Oil-Tank-1963-Only-82-5327/351928713495?_trkparms=gclientid%3DWy6Tut3TZX5QEJDFOKx7HN4VroTENZdeK9yyCIVnS8r8XqV2TNdew4SS6WZYHpM8&_trksid=p2380231.m4335.l8656

Last edited by Mori55; 06/29/17 7:56 pm.
Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700080
06/29/17 10:25 pm
06/29/17 10:25 pm
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reverb Online content
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...20 Dollars is very cheap to sew that patch. There s no problem regarding oil man.

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700107
06/30/17 1:36 am
06/30/17 1:36 am
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Mori55 Offline OP
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Didn't understand end of your question.

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700117
06/30/17 3:09 am
06/30/17 3:09 am
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reverb Online content
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...not a question but an answer.
I tried to say that you found a good price for the job and that you do not need to clean too much before the welding; you need to clean it a lot after. But if you want to clean it a lot before, you can use kerosene, Do several washes then do several washes with water then dry it quickly and just that.

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700125
06/30/17 6:12 am
06/30/17 6:12 am
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 528
Great Southern Land
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The trouble you have there is that the seam is soldered!!!! And the seam will have oil trapped in it. So if you weld the piece back in your welder friend will have solder running everywhere contaminating the weld as well as running out of the seam itself. You need to fill the tank with water so that the rest of the seam doesn't get heat transfer.
Plus if the 650 tanks are anything like the Trident ones, the metal has been pressed into shape and is sort of under tension and stressed. When you weld this metal it cracks as it cools - been there done that - you have to give it a long slow cool down.
Brazing actually works better [lower heat] and the solder isn't as much of an issue, but it can be fiddly to get right as well.

Good luck, but its not as straight forward as you think it will be......it will take some patience to get the repair right. I'm with Irish Swede on this, it will be easier and a better long term solution to buy a replacement.

Note: I expect somebody to say otherwise....and maybe their welding technique is better, if they do, send them the tank, because its not a job for a novice.


Last edited by tridentt150v; 07/02/17 9:33 am.
Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: tridentt150v] #700138
06/30/17 10:19 am
06/30/17 10:19 am
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NJ USA
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Mori55 Offline OP
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Thank you I appreciate your answer ,I may have to find a replacement. See a lot of tanks but most are pretty crappy.

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700139
06/30/17 10:31 am
06/30/17 10:31 am
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Mori55 Offline OP
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How many years were the oil tanks the same ? And we're all models the same ?

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700140
06/30/17 10:32 am
06/30/17 10:32 am
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Mori55 Offline OP
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How many years were the oil tanks the same ? And we're all models the same ?

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700144
06/30/17 10:42 am
06/30/17 10:42 am
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Hillbilly bike Offline
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I have an oil tank from a 1970 650 Triumph you can have for 20 bucks and the cost of shipping . I have no idea if it's exactly the same as yours but some one knows..... I will take a good look at it today ....I live near Rochester NY...


I ride dinosaurs....
Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700149
06/30/17 11:08 am
06/30/17 11:08 am
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kommando Offline
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There are detail differences nearly every year, but there was a major change between the 63 to 65 tank and the 66 on when the method of mounting changed, so stick to a 66 onwards.

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700153
06/30/17 11:49 am
06/30/17 11:49 am
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Stuart Offline
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Hi,

Originally Posted by Mori55
I removed my oil tank to clean it on my 67 Tr6 and a piece of tank was still connected to the top front bracket. It looks like vibration broke it. It's not just the bracket but a strip if the tank that goes into the seam about a 1/2 inch by 1-1/2.

Originally Posted by Mori55
We're the problem is I can have welded.

This is also a common problem on triples, particularly on the tanks that have one short mounting and one long, it's the "short one" that always breaks. facepalm

The tanks weren't either welded or soldered but brazed. When one of my T160's tanks broke the "short" mounting, I knew a guy who could braze and he just did it, no drama, worries about cleaning, etc. Although obviously, I gave the tank a good clean-out afterwards.

That must be something like thirty years ago. No problem since with the tank. bigt

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700158
06/30/17 12:15 pm
06/30/17 12:15 pm
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Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Offline
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1966 and later tanks were rubber-mounted. The mounts are held to the frame with self-locking nuts, rare on British bikes
before 1969.
What breaks the mounts is the urge to tighten up these bolts to a point they no longer have any flex, and instead act as "solid' mounts. This is when the mount will break.

When the tank is properly mounted, it should have some movement. If you are using the proper slotted "bolts" and lock nuts, only two or three threads of the bolt should be seen projecting from the end of the lock nut.

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Irish Swede] #700225
06/30/17 7:36 pm
06/30/17 7:36 pm
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North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
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Originally Posted by Irish Swede
1966 and later tanks were rubber-mounted. The mounts are held to the frame with self-locking nuts, rare on British bikes before 1969.

What breaks the mounts is the urge to tighten up these bolts to a point they no longer have any flex, and instead act as "solid' mounts. This is when the mount will break.

When the tank is properly mounted, it should have some movement. If you are using the proper slotted "bolts" and lock nuts, only two or three threads of the bolt should be seen projecting from the end of the lock nut.


This is all true. In addition, sometimes the tank touches the RH edge of the rear fender or an off-size battery that doesn't really fit the battery box. These tanks are more delicate than a casual glance would indicate. You must really study the parts book to see how these tanks are properly installed and insulated from the battery box AND frame. These days, only 1 in 500 bikes has the oil tank and battery box properly mounted.

The fix for your oil tank is to have it brazed back together. Due to the mass of metal laid down, the braze joint ends up being stronger than any type of welding. Of course the paint will need to be redone, but at least you know the tank will fit and has no dents. A safe assumption would be that any tank off eBay will probably need the same treatment, so why not simply run with what you know fits and works.

Then re-install the tank with all new rubber mounts, top bottom and on the LH side of the battery box. I find that the flat rubber washers at the battery box / oil tank interface are best replaced with flat rubber washers from "old school" twist handle faucets. You can get those 10 for $1 at any hardware store and they never disintegrate like the stock ones.

And DO NOT let the battery touch the oil tank !!

Hope this helps. bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Irish Swede] #700285
07/01/17 3:34 am
07/01/17 3:34 am
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Stuart Offline
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Hi,

Originally Posted by Irish Swede
1966 and later tanks were rubber-mounted. The mounts are held to the frame with self-locking nuts, rare on British bikes before 1969.
What breaks the mounts is the urge to tighten up these bolts to a point they no longer have any flex, and instead act as "solid' mounts. This is when the mount will break.

When the tank is properly mounted, it should have some movement. If you are using the proper slotted "bolts" and lock nuts, only two or three threads of the bolt should be seen projecting from the end of the lock nut.

Errrm ... some confusion here ...

The top mountings to the frame are two "Screwed peg(s)", that are 1/4" Cycle-thread up to '69 (according to the parts book) and UNF thereafter. The Cycle securing nut is not self-locking. The "peg" is slotted at the opposite end to the thread so it can be held with a screwdriver while the nut is tightened.

Each "peg" is inside a F6673 "Spigot rubber", that never changed from '66 to the last T160's. Each tank top bracket is on the outside of the "Spigot rubber", the "pegs" cannot compress the "rubbers" so how tight the nuts on the "pegs" are is irrelevant; in fact, leaving 'em loose just means vibration frets the "pegs" in the frame brackets ...

The tank bottom mount is also exactly the same from '66 to the last T160; the bracket changed shape but the F6039 "Grommet" is exactly the same and the 5/16" bolt to the frame only changed thread.

The only "self-locking nuts" are on the 1/4" (standard hex.?) bolts securing the tank to the "Front strap" and "Rear strap" to the drive-side of the rear frame, that the battery carrier hooks over. The other ends of the "straps" are outside two more F6673 "Spigot rubber(s)"; in turn, only the inside of the "rubbers" are on steel spigots on the frame tube, so these "rubbers" also can't be compressed to remove their vibe-isolation ... confused

Ime, another common cause of tank top mount breaks is prolonged use without the bottom mount fitted. facepalm The latter requires some patience to fit to the frame and it's fairly obvious that many Triumph owners past and present don't possess enough ... and also don't appreciate just how heavy 5-6 pints of oil are ... frown

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Stuart] #700309
07/01/17 11:22 am
07/01/17 11:22 am
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I do remember Triumph oil tanks cracking as a result of long periods at higher RPM's when the bikes were much newer than now. ..A US gallon of oil weighs about 6.5 pounds? The weight of the oil should tend to dampen tank vibration..


I ride dinosaurs....
Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Stuart] #700316
07/01/17 12:01 pm
07/01/17 12:01 pm
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Elburn, Ill. USA
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Irish Swede Offline
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Stuart's description of the mounting s at the frame as "screwed pegs" that have a screwdriver slot at the non-threaded end
is the true appearance of those. The entire peg rides within the rubber bush and is held to the frame by its threaded end.

I couldn't figure out what to call them, so I mistakenly used the term "bolts."

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700319
07/01/17 12:40 pm
07/01/17 12:40 pm
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Any fastener fitted with a nut is therefore (technically speaking) a "bolt". So there's no condemnation from me. I would have called it a "thingy mebob", so you did good. laughing

However, we have to tip our hat to Stu. Whitworth versions had a lock washer and plain hex nut. After ~1968, Unified SAE threaded versions got the distorted thread lock nut you spoke of.

beerchug


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Hillbilly bike] #700325
07/01/17 1:33 pm
07/01/17 1:33 pm
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Hi,

Originally Posted by Irish Swede
Stuart's description of the mounting s at the frame as "screwed pegs" that have a screwdriver slot at the non-threaded end
is the true appearance of those. The entire peg rides within the rubber bush and is held to the frame by its threaded end.

smile Far be it for me to claim the credit, "Screwed peg" is what Meriden called 'em in the parts books.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
A US gallon of oil weighs about 6.5 pounds? The weight of the oil should tend to dampen tank vibration..

My understanding is, without the bottom bracket, it's simply the weight of the tank and oil - plus at least some of the weight of the battery? - hanging off just the top brackets? frown

Regards,

Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Stuart] #700359
07/01/17 5:06 pm
07/01/17 5:06 pm
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Stuart , I should have said the tank mounts not frame mounts


I ride dinosaurs....
Re: Oil tank tank repair [Re: Mori55] #700376
07/01/17 8:11 pm
07/01/17 8:11 pm
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Mori55 Offline OP
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I had it repaired. The young guy down the street he liar can welds custom boat hardware crests racks , tuna towers etc.
He did a great job and found the other mount had a crack he repaired. [img]http://[IMG]http://i131.photobucket.com/al...05-F380-4492-A567-7683505486CB.jpg[/img][/img]
[img]http://[IMG]http://i131.photobucket.com/al...36-DD15-4F26-B00D-A82713C763CA.jpg[/img][/img][img]http://[IMG]http://i131.photobucket.com/al...B6-1A5E-4A08-8C0D-A2E36595C74C.jpg[/img][/img]

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