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#696652 05/27/17 4:48 pm
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ATEN Offline OP
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I went on a parts buy this morning and found a 1966 Lightning Clubman motor. (A65LC) Anyone know of production numbers on these?

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Cool! But.... are the numbers "legit"?


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The font looks correct, no evidence of monkey business !

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The C doesn't denote "Clubman". It is the alphabetic designation for a 69 Lightning compared to A for 67 and B for 68.model.

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Lightning Clubman motors should have the engine No prefix A65DC. However the A65DC (close ratio box) motor was also fitted to the 1965 standard model A65 Lightning as an option.


VicCyclone

1965 A50 Cyclone Clubman
1966 Victor GP
1967 Victor Special
1968 Victor Special
1968 A65L

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ATEN #696668 05/27/17 10:55 pm
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I JUST RESEARCHED THE BSA OWNERS CLUB UK LIST OF MACHINE DATING CODES AND NUMBERS? THE A65DC IS CORRECT FOR 1965 LIGHTNING CLUBMAN,1966 LIGHTNING CLUBMAN IS A65LC . 1969 LIGHTNING IS ALSO A65LC SO WHAT THIS MOTOR REALLY IS REMAINS IN QUESTION? I WILL LOOK FOR OTHER INDICATORS???

ATEN #696669 05/27/17 11:05 pm
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Generally the 69's have a raised # pad. Also the case studs/bolts/nuts are US thread.

Last edited by pushrod tom; 05/27/17 11:07 pm.
ATEN #696670 05/28/17 12:20 am
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Since I have done a lot of Lightning Clubman research.......maybe to the point of OCD research......

Allegedly 29 Lightning Clubmans were assembled in 1966 using the engine code A65LC. To put it mildly, I don't believe that story.

I do think the 190 built during 64/65 is accurate, tho I am not convinced all were true Clubmans. But save that for another thread.

Early 69 motors used A65LC engine codes. Then the change to the month year type numbering system started. IMO a 69 model year engine using A65LC code was likely more 68 than the later 69 motors.

Which is the long way of saying I seriously doubt you found a genuine Lightning Clubman engine from the mythical 66 model year......


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IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR OCD IS IN FULL SONG ! I WOULD NOT BE SURPRIZED THAT BSA WOULD BUILD A FEW 66 CLUBMANS TO USE UP LEFT OVER PARTS FROM 65.IF THERE WERE NO 66 CLUBMANS WHY WOULD ALL THE FACTORY NUMBERS DATA LIST THEM?? THAT BEING SAID I AM CONVINCED THAT MY MOTOR IS MOST LIKELY A 69? I BOUGHT IT FOR PARTS SO I AM NOT TOO DISSAPOINTED??

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I just simply don't believe 29 LC's were produced in 66. The model code was assigned and allegedly 29 were assembled. I have yet to find a picture or any evidence of any ever being assembled. Either BSA was playing fast and loose to get 200 serial numbers for production racing homologation or they shipped 29 left overs in 66.

IMO, 190 is the correct number.........

This was not a good selling model.

And AFAIK, none were exported to the US. There is one genuine one that was imported a number of years ago. There is most likely one in Canada that was part of an estate. That is it.


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It may be that the few extra that were made were in fact cancelled orders, either from dealers or dreamers. As these motors were bench tested, maybe the extra ones failed the test, and found themselves re-imagined into later machines. After all this time, if you need to find out then a little imagination helps.


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A picture of the engine might answer a few questions

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Originally Posted by Richard Phillips
A picture of the engine might answer a few questions


That's what I'm sayin...


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ATEN #698320 06/13/17 11:51 am
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Originally Posted by ATEN
IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR OCD IS IN FULL SONG ! I WOULD NOT BE SURPRIZED THAT BSA WOULD BUILD A FEW 66 CLUBMANS TO USE UP LEFT OVER PARTS FROM 65.IF THERE WERE NO 66 CLUBMANS WHY WOULD ALL THE FACTORY NUMBERS DATA LIST THEM?? THAT BEING SAID I AM CONVINCED THAT MY MOTOR IS MOST LIKELY A 69? I BOUGHT IT FOR PARTS SO I AM NOT TOO DISSAPOINTED??


First of all TURN OFF THE CAPS !!!!!!!!!
1) it makes it very hard to read your posts
2) it is considered as shouting ie rude .

Second there is primary sources of BSA numbers , those made by BSA themselves.
You will find these in the BSA factory Despatch books and also in some BSA parts books.
Both of which have been found to have errors or unexplained inconsistencies if you like.
Thes are the only numbers you believe.

After that you have secondary sources.
Secondary sources are period publications like dealers trade in books , magazine articles and extracts from the factory records by third parties.
These should be considered as probably correct allowing for transcription errors and errors in factory data.

Then we get to tertiary sources , things like appendicies in Bacons abominations fall into this category . dubious accuracy.

Finally there is everything you see posted on the web, much of which is lifted from things like Bacon's books and posted by people who have done absolutely nothing to validate the material and include it to make themselves look authoritative
They should be considered as the roughest possible guide to what might by sheer accident be almost correct , some of the time.

Then there is the repost or reposts of reposts.
So the long & short of it.
Unless a list o the web credits its source don't believe a singel pixel is right.



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"Finally there is everything you see posted on the web, much of which is lifted from things like Bacon's books and posted by people who have done absolutely nothing to validate the material and include it to make themselves look authoritative
They should be considered as the roughest possible guide to what might by sheer accident be almost correct , some of the time."


Well there you have me, Ive been found out.

The only authority on the subject is to write to the BSAOC, who will, for a small fee, furnish you with a certificate stating the date of manufacture of the engine and the frame. They also advise you, based on years of experience, what the likelihood is of whether the engine is an exchange unit etc...


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Okay, I had an A65LC back in the day. It was my 3rd bike after my D14/4, Tiger 21 and then the BSA
I never knew what I had until I was in Australia and back into the classic bike scene in the late 1970's
I bought the bike second hand in 68 or 69, there is absolutely no way it was a 69 machine, its registration was PTW 76D, a D registration in the UK IS 1966
I just wish I'd kept the log book information on it but you pass it on to the next buyer.
I'd taken most of any value out of it by blowing the left hand rod and making a real mess of the cases and the barrel base flange.
The owner prior to me never knew what he had because he got rid of the original tank and replaced it with a 5 gallon alloy one and had a single race seat put on it and had a Goldie silencer plus rear sets and ace bars put on it and painted everything with hammertone blue!


Current: 2 x 1966 A65S, 1 x 1967 A65SA, 1 x 69/70? A65LA space Y, 1 X D14/4 & 1 x B175
Past: 4 x 1976 T160V, 1 74/5 T150V, 83 model GSX 750 ESD, Z650, Katana 1100(Bathurst Model), 79 T140V, 70's TR6, 2 x 1971 BSA 250 Gold Stars, 50's 350 Goldie, A65 Spitfire semi basket case, 1965/6? A65 LC, Tiger 21 350 & a D14/4 Bantam, 175 Bridgestone Twin with Zimmerman discs!

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