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Bruce Martin
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Electronic Ignitions
#681752 01/18/17 9:49 am
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About the only upgrade I would consider for my all original 69 Tiger 650 would be an electronic ignition. There are a lot more choices than there than there used to be when I put a Boyer in my 70 Interceptor 20 years ago. What do people recommend now? What's the best choice if I do decide to modify the Triumph's good old points ignition?
Thanks
Don

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1965 Royal Enfield Interceptor
1969 Triumph Tiger 650
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Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681755 01/18/17 10:12 am
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Don, nice bike, looks a lot like mine, but more original :bigt

There are so many threads on EI, probably one or two active right now. A little browsing and searching will turn them up.

I run Boyer in all three of my bikes, no problems at all, they start and run great, they idle low and smooth.

(I run Tympaniun electronic regulator/rectifier in all three. All good.

Two more changes that have made a world of difference: I changed the tires to Avon RoadRiders. And upgraded the carbs. On the Triumphs, I had Lund bore & sleeve. By the time I had replaced all the innards, the cost really climbed. So for the BSA, I bought new AMAL Premier carbs, the way to go IMO.)

Just my experience.


Kurt

-- Don't believe everything you think.
Re: Electronic Ignitions
kurt fischer #681759 01/18/17 10:35 am
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I have a Boyer on the 72. Over thirty years, no problems.
A Pazon on the 68. 12 years no problems. The Pazon has degree marks along part of the edge so if you want to change the timing 1 or 2 degrees there is no guessing and it's easy to go back.
You do have to keep the battery charged and check the electrical connections occasionally with EI but that's it. I hated the never ending battle with the points.

PS I left old Zener and rectifier in place with some phony wires just in case someone looked under seat.

Last edited by desco; 01/19/17 8:25 pm. Reason: addition

1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681760 01/18/17 10:37 am
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...hello, I am not sure if "upgrade" is the right word. Is like fuel injection...is not better is different.

A buddy here put Pazon in a T140 engine; I rode the bike about 80kms on the road and I did not see any gain or anything better than the points.
It was timed with strobe light.

Tri spark seems the one with better specs, but is expensive.

Another option, even expensive is to put a new BTH electronic magneto.

I do not see any problems with the points; just put new ones and you will perform years to come. How many kms do you do per week?
I put a lot of kms and I have a Hunt magneto in my pre unit; so points; lots of kms and about 18 years since new and still kicking meanwhile all the other guys with coils, battery electronic stuff have been experiencing all types of problems.
Just saying

Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681763 01/18/17 10:54 am
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EI isn"t meant to be "better" but is intended to be trouble free once set.

no more points adjusting and AAU adjusting/lube.
they used to require a very healthy battery but are better these days and will start on a relatively flat battery.

personally, in the Uk I would go for Pazon.

John H is a dealer for Boyer and you'd probably get any warranty item fixed quicker?

Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681787 01/18/17 2:17 pm
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I've got 2 Triumphs, one on Boyer, one on Pazon. I would recommend either, and putting EI on the ikes is the best mod I have done.



Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681788 01/18/17 2:35 pm
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If you want your bike to perform identically to points without the maintenance, then the Pazon is the one. The advance curve is closer to the mechanical advance than the rest. Plus, there is a very long warrantee that you very likely will not need. And the price. It beats the rest on price. And it will run down to at least as low as 9v on my independent testing.

Also, you can run with 12v coils that come with your bike, but I wouldn't. Maybe a putt putt bike, but not a stock Triumph.

Also, I might consider running points if I could get quality points, but all that's available in my searches were the Daichi points with nylon rubbing blocks. The first time your bike gets a bit hot, the points will close up.

However, if you are a bit crafty, you can swap the nylon rubbing blocks for the hard red ones from the Lucas points.....

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681810 01/18/17 5:26 pm
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Got two Triumphs with Pazons. One has a Tympanium and the other uses the original rectifier. Both run fine and have not had any issues.

Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681820 01/18/17 6:44 pm
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If you use your bike, rather than just start it up and potter a few miles a handful of times each summer, I'd advise to avoid Trispark. Trispark seems to have an undeservedly good reputation but if you dig a bit deeper, there are a lot of Triumph and Norton twin owners who have been badly let down by these expensive pieces of kit. I'm one of them. I've gone with points on my latest T140 project.

I had imagined that the Daichi points would be better than Lucas, being Made In Japan - is this not the case then?


If anything other than a blank space is visible here, something's wrong.
Re: Electronic Ignitions
Tigernuts #681826 01/18/17 7:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Tigernuts
I had imagined that the Daichi points would be better than Lucas, being Made In Japan - is this not the case then?



They're ok. Much is made of the Daiichi points having 'nylon' heels but then so did the Lucas 6CA and later points assemblies and probably why Daiichi copied it.




Re: Electronic Ignitions
L.A.B. #681830 01/18/17 7:51 pm
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Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Originally Posted by Tigernuts
I had imagined that the Daichi points would be better than Lucas, being Made In Japan - is this not the case then?



They're ok. Much is made of the Daiichi points having 'nylon' heels but then so did the Lucas 6CA and later points assemblies and probably why Daiichi copied it.





And yet, the nylon heels wore off Lucas points in a remarkably short time.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681835 01/18/17 8:17 pm
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They must be of later manufacture. I have several old sets of Lucas points with "Tufnol" (or something like that, or phenolic....??)In any case, the material is not nylon.

I got 35k miles out of a set in my Norton with just the occasional reset of the points.

The Daichi's go for about 500-1000 miles then are so worn that you can't get the proper gap.

If you ride your bike only on the weekends, that can be good enough, I suppose.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Electronic Ignitions
HawaiianTiger #681841 01/18/17 8:59 pm
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Originally Posted by HawaiianTiger
They must be of later manufacture.


Up to '70 Triumph manual
http://www.classicbike.biz/Triumph/Repair/1970s/70-Triumph-Repair-Manual-63-70.pdf

Section B29
"To adjust the contact breaker gaps, turn the motor with the starter pedal until the scribe mark on the cam aligns with the NYLON heel...."

Says "Nylon" in the early and later Commando manuals
1968
http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Repair/70up_Commando/70upCommando.pdf
pdf.27
1970-
http://www.classicbike.biz/Norton/Repair/70up_Commando/70upCommando.pdf
Section C40 pdf p.77.


Originally Posted by HawaiianTiger
The Daichi's go for about 500-1000 miles then are so worn that you can't get the proper gap.


Well, the Daiichi points in my T140 have gone that far and only needed one minor adjustment.




Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681876 01/19/17 9:21 am
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Thanks for the input lads. The Interceptor had the old style Boyer and was trouble free but I see there is a new digital variety now. I know nothing of Pazon or the others so will have to check them out. I kept the old rectifier and zener on the old Interceptor for years with the Boyer but think that these days would go with modern kit for that too on the Triumph.
What would be a nice way to regulate the system that can be hidden from view to keep that original look?
Looking forward to spring. This bike will be well used this year for sure!
Cheers
Don


1965 Royal Enfield Interceptor
1969 Triumph Tiger 650
Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681877 01/19/17 9:48 am
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On the 68 I made a bracket out of aluminium diamond plate and bolted it to the battery box hanging bracket behind the tool box side cover. The Tympanum is bolted to the bracket under the battery box and is in the air stream between the down tube and the cover. Out of sight and out of mind. I know where it is and I can't see it.
The aluminium makes a good heat sink also.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #681886 01/19/17 10:28 am
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Originally Posted by Don Leaming
The Interceptor had the old style Boyer and was trouble free but I see there is a new digital variety now.


The Boyer digitals (Micro-Digital and Micro-Power) have been around for quite some time.
I know I fitted a Boyer Micro-Digital (which is still going strong) to one of my bikes and that must be at least twenty years ago now, and I think they'd already been available for a couple of years by then.

Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #682026 01/20/17 3:43 pm
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Regarding points, The ones from Raber's San Jose California, I don't know what brand, but they seem to hold up well.

The felt oiling pad is really not quite enough. A good points block lube is needed. The old Bosch was quite good. Now lube is harder to find. Lately I've been using Mallory to very good results (sold on eBay).

I've been intentionally tracking points wear on face & block over last 10k miles. I find they have been holding up same as original from new. I find they only close about .001-.0015 in 3k miles. That translates into about 1deg retard on timing.

Lots of us still use points to very good results, but indeed they need to be maintained. That is why Triumph & the auto manufactures went electronic. To maintain timing on spec over many thousands of miles.
Don


1973 Tiger 750
Re: Electronic Ignitions
Don Leaming #682028 01/20/17 3:49 pm
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Hi, Curiosity is my vice. Gotten me into lots of trouble!

Regarding Boyer advance curve. NOT by their charts, but by real life. Not worrying about tach error.

What does the timing light show at various RPM according to your tach?

I've not personally installed or timed a Boyer, but have always been curious as to how it compares to stock aau in real life. Again, not per spec sheet, but real life.

Thanks much, Don


1973 Tiger 750
Re: Electronic Ignitions
TR7RVMan #682035 01/20/17 5:05 pm
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The info is a bit dated, but this site might help:

There is a graph comparing Boyer/AAU/Rita

http://atlanticgreen.com/boyerexposed.html

There have been a number of iterations of the Boyer products since 1989, so I'd have to think the curve would look at least slightly different today.

How do you plan on riding the bike? I've ridden strictly on-road (no prolonged interstate slogging) with an MKIII for the last 10 years or so with no problems at all.

Cheers,

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...

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