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Project 39-1/2 Update - 11/27/16 #650940
05/01/16 4:16 pm
05/01/16 4:16 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Hacking up dead bikes left and right, I am! Sorry, we just watched "Revenge of Frankenstein" 1958 last night!

As I left off in last post there was concern about the sprocket lining up with the cast wheels from the Allazurra. After much measuring and aligning, which involved checking the frame and finding centerline and all, I determined that once the wheel was mounted in the Allazurra swingarm it would come very close to lining up with the proposed gearbox sprocket position.

The only problem with that is - the Ally sw/arm is wider than the Wards - they would have to be cut and welded into a new sw/arm, the front half Wards to clear the frame, and the rear half Ally to fit the rear wheel properly.


More measurements and pages of drawings with x's and arrows noting every possible dimension that I may need reference to later.
Now to cut - using an abrasive blade in the table saw with the sawdust carefully cleaned out!

[Linked Image]

These first cuts allowed me to figure out the next steps. I removed part of the outer weldment on the Ally sw/arm and determined the next cuts.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

A little heating and bending to the Wards piece and it dropped right in place. This assembly will be 1/2" longer than the original swingarm and will additionally have almost 1/4" more chain adjustment than original. After alot of fussing and taking a couple breaks to clear my thoughts - tack welded with my gas outfit.

[Linked Image]

Here it is stuck in the chassis - it would look better if it was silver like the rest of the frame.

[Linked Image]

Next step is to take it over to my friend Craig for full welding and he'll install new machined bronze sw/arm bushings. After that will be to rework the shock mounts on the Wards frame and this sw/arm. I'll be fitting the Ally shocks which have the same travel dimensions as the originals.
Al ***Forgot to add: Comments, Advice, Knocks on head - Welcomed and maybe even needed!

Last edited by Al Eckstadt; 11/27/16 4:58 pm.

Al Eckstadt
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Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - Frankenstein swingarm [Re: Al Eckstadt] #651862
05/07/16 11:34 am
05/07/16 11:34 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 850
Overland Missouri
O
old mule Offline
BritBike Forum member
old mule  Offline
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O

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 850
Overland Missouri
That will be a nice machine, keep us updated please.

Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - Frankenstein swingarm [Re: Al Eckstadt] #651877
05/07/16 4:15 pm
05/07/16 4:15 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Thanks mule, It is definitely not like any type of work I've done before. My friend Craig lives 1/4 mile down the road and he is an accomplished machinist, welder and mechanic. Without his advice I would not have got this far. Soon to be a rolling chassis again, but with a much improved suspension.

The front fender is from the Allazurra and is very close in size and shape to the Mojave fender, almost identical. Being green I found a can of orange and "colored" it to match. But this bike will be metallic blue in homage to its predecessor the Benelli Scorcher 650 prototype.

Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - Frankenstein swingarm [Re: Al Eckstadt] #653614
05/20/16 8:25 pm
05/20/16 8:25 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
"Frankenstein" swingarm back from Craig's garage and welded. There was some "forming" by torch of the outer metal To the inner metal, closing the gaps and shaping it to meet smoothly. Particularly in the swoopy cutaway area on the sides. These welds are unfinished - that is they aren't cleaned up, ground or smoothed over yet.

[Linked Image]

This view shows how the cross bar of the Wards front "plugs into" the rear cross piece of the Cagiva arms.
[Linked Image]

I got bushings from McMaster-Carr - original parts are apparently unobtainable. Took some fussing but got the pivot shaft to fit through and stuck it in the frame. Here you can see that the modifications are almost invisible, hidden by the passenger peg brackets and psngr peg plates when they get remounted.

[Linked Image]

I'll be retesting the fit of the rear wheel and sprocket alignment. And figuring out what needs to be done to have shocks fit as near as possible to the original geometry.
That's it for now.
Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - Frankenstein swingarm [Re: Al Eckstadt] #653658
05/21/16 8:31 am
05/21/16 8:31 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 443
Iowa
konon Offline

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konon  Offline

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Posts: 443
Iowa
Coming together nicely. Great project.


1968 BSA Firebird
1200 HD
XS 1100
1972 Rickman 125
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 6/3/2016 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #655588
06/05/16 8:41 am
06/05/16 8:41 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Mounting shocks - Jim gave me a set of shocks that are the correct length. Using the lower mounts will keep everything correct on the sw/arm including the eventual chain guard mountings. So that means changes has to be made to the upper mount, which is a very sturdy 1/4" plate. I cut off the old welded-on bolts. The lower mount is a bit wider so I had to add a bushing to bring it into parallel. The old bolt had a small bushing anyway, maybe 3/8" thick, and the new bushing needs to be about 13/16" thick, so I'm only adding a bit over 3/8" per side.
[Linked Image]
Once brazed on I used the hole as a drill guide to make the hole in the plate. The bushings are spacers from a Ford tractor torque converter mounting plate, I saved a few of them in my 11 years as a Ford tractor mechanic.
The shock mounts now parallel I can mount the shocks and I now have a rolling chassis again!!! (Stick Genny Cream Ale emoticon here).
OK so I spent a couple hours Saturday afternoon screwing around playing with stuff and sticking things back on the bike.
[Linked Image]
Mind you, most everything is still a "rough draft". I just bought the handlebars and new taillight but I'm using a lot parts for set-up onlt. The twin carb head is just on there so I don't get the single carb head dirty (the only engine part that is rebuilt so far).
[Linked Image]
Next step - wheel alignment, chain alignment and light frame modifications for chain path.
Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 6/3/2016 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #655710
06/06/16 11:10 am
06/06/16 11:10 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 215
Fl., U.S.A.
Thunderbutt Offline
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Posts: 215
Fl., U.S.A.
Al- Awesome looking ride!!!! Genny Cream, I haven't heard that one in awhile. I consumed massive quantities when I lived up in Fredonia, N.Y. I didn't know they still brewed the stuff.

Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 6/3/2016 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #655717
06/06/16 12:20 pm
06/06/16 12:20 pm
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 850
Overland Missouri
O
old mule Offline
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old mule  Offline
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O

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 850
Overland Missouri
Are you weighing things as you install them? Just curious what this will weigh, compared to a standard Triumph.

Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 6/3/2016 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #655738
06/06/16 3:23 pm
06/06/16 3:23 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
No, I haven't weighed things...yet. I probably will as time goes on. Initial assembly and road testing to get the bugs out, then take things apart for painting/finishing. But maybe I can get it done before then.
I expect it to weigh less than a stock late '60's Triumph. Maybe not because of the different chassis but because I will be trying to keep all bolt-on stuff light. Maybe that's unrealistic - I don't know.
I remember seeing a weight for a Benelli 650 of 378 lbs. I'll have to go through my notes and confirm that. In the road test in Cycle Feb '69 they tested both the Scorcher and a Tornado - they printed the specs but didn't specify which bike. I think it would be the Tornado since only it was for sale. The weight was 407 lbs. Quite a bit more than I want. Hoping for about 360-70 with my fingers crossed.
Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 9/5/2016 - Progress! [Re: Al Eckstadt] #666555
09/05/16 9:37 am
09/05/16 9:37 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
We left off at chain alignment. I had an offset sprocket made to bring the chain (and engine) inboard. This was a bit expensive but solved the chain path clearance issue. The frame will not have to be cut to make room for chain path.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
The engine has been positioned vertically by placing metal blocks (thick shims) on the frame rails. Left to right axis has been obtained precisely by the sheer luck of having these frame brackets line up with this rear engine mount hole, and using a threaded rod with nuts.
[Linked Image]
Now the engine is at last in position. The single carb is very close to center...
[Linked Image]
The dual carb head is there just for fitment purposes. Thus the strap of metal used to hold an old carb body in place. There is a rebuilt single carb head and new carb ready to go. The engine is just a shell - I'll be hauling it to Jim's Motorsports next month and we'll see if my $200 engine is any good.
The front engine mount - tack welded in place. Using the original cross plate moved up a little and placed on the short extended mount tabs. The L brackets to the engine mount are made from the original Mojave engine mount. The bottom engine mount will also be an original Mojave bracket.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 9/5/2016 - Progress! [Re: Al Eckstadt] #666791
09/07/16 9:10 am
09/07/16 9:10 am
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 850
Overland Missouri
O
old mule Offline
BritBike Forum member
old mule  Offline
BritBike Forum member
O

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 850
Overland Missouri
I'm enjoying this project, thank you.

Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 9/5/2016 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #672929
10/30/16 9:14 pm
10/30/16 9:14 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
I was able to spend over four hours working in the shop this weekend. But started today turning on the extension lamp and clobbering my forehead on the handlebar. Yow!
[Linked Image]

After finishing the lower engine mount a few weeks ago I began to realize that I needed an exhaust system in place before I could do much more.
I found a set of mufflers on Craigslist (I think they're pre-unit Triumph), you'll see them in the photos. I ordered a set of Triumph stock pipes - this was a mistake - mainly because the mounting tabs hit the frame, being a double downtube in front. If you know anyone who wants a set of MAC pipes at a reasonable price, email me. Meanwhile a set of Cycle Shack pipes arrived from MAP in St. Pete. Very nice!

To catch up where I left off here's the completed engine mount. Keep in mind almost everything on the bike is very rough at this stage. For example the mount is only tack welded, unpainted and the bolt is a piece of 7/16 all-thread.

The cross piece is a shallow depth channel iron and the bracket is fabbed from one of the original Mojave engine brackets.
[Linked Image]

Cycle Shack exhaust, 10 degree extensions from Hitchcock's and Toga mufflers more or less in position. The muffler will either attach with a chrome strap bracket to the Mojave passenger peg bracket, or there will be a slightly longer bracket made up and they'll bolt directly to it. The mufflers may be moved further forward 1/2" to 1".
[Linked Image]

This is the 10 degree extension from Hitchcock's in England. It allows an upkick but also when rotated slightly swings the muffler out in parallel with the swingarm, allowing clearance.
[Linked Image]

The pipe position is finalized as is the length (I cut about 4" off the end). The P clamps are bolted to an alloy bracket that was part of the Allazurra's passenger footpegs. This angled bracket gives me a little flexibility in mounting.
[Linked Image]

On this side I'm holding the brake lever up in it's approximate position. The brake shaft was extended over the exhaust pipe by cutting the pedal arm off and adding a piece of stout tubing. The brake arm will be reattached, shortened and foot pedal relocated.
[Linked Image]

The footrest supports are original Mojave, but reversed for a rearward position. Mounting to the rear engine plates right where the Triumph's mount. The footrests are the narrow profile Triumph passenger pegs (they need a touch of weld to fit the Mojave part, but will work). The narrow pegs will help get clearance for the kick start.
Gearshifting by an extended lever as done on my Bonneville. The brake lever shaft runs across the frame. The rear master cylinder will be mounted on the right side or possibly centrally underneath the engine. While I am unsure at this time I do have some ideas.

The rear engine mounts - obviously Triumph parts - need some work and I'm preparing to start on them. They will bolt to the metisse frame swingarm plate using spacers brazed on to fill the gap. A hole must be cut to allow access to the swingarm shaft. And reshaping of the plates to blend with the metisse frame.



Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 9/5/2016 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #672930
10/30/16 9:27 pm
10/30/16 9:27 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,405
SLO County, CA
D.Bachtel Offline
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D.Bachtel  Offline
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Posts: 2,405
SLO County, CA
[Linked Image]


Looking sharp Al!
The wheels and the paint scheme seem to work well.
Very handsome machine.

Don in Nipomo

Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #672971
10/31/16 10:15 am
10/31/16 10:15 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Thanks, Don.

I appreciate all the compliments but welcome critical comments or just questions. You might ask or point out something I haven't thought about.

The project being a "Pseudo-Scorcher" will have a different paint color when finished. I'll probably opt for the color of the prototype Scorcher which appears to be a light metallic blue, frame and cycle parts silver.
Cycle magazine Feb '69
[Linked Image]


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #672991
10/31/16 12:54 pm
10/31/16 12:54 pm
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,875
Pacific northwest
Q
quinten Offline
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quinten  Offline
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Q

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,875
Pacific northwest

Just wondering ,
Is that as low as the engine could have been placed in the frame ?

.


Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #672994
10/31/16 1:49 pm
10/31/16 1:49 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Good question, quinten. That is as low as I dared to place it. Do you think it's a problem? Maybe someone else could place it lower. The issue is to keep the countershaft sprocket near the swingarm centerline. The point being to keep the chain from having clearance problems and keep from changing tension. The geometry can affect how tight the chain is in its range of movement. I forget the exact measure but I'm something like 1/4 to 3/8" below the centerline - but close enough to avoid chain problems.

The frame has a lot room vertically - probably because A) the 260 engine had an oil sump but mostly B) the frame was made to fit the Benelli 650 engine which also had a sump. There's still plenty of room above for servicing the valves/rocker boxes. I tilted the front of the engine slightly to lower it, probably not enough to make a difference.

While a lower engine is advantageous, I wasn't willing to move the swingarm pivot point. I was a bit intimidated by the thought of making new swingarm mounts. To be honest - I don't think I have the skills to relocate the swingarm and I didn't want to pay someone to do it, adding to expense and delay in progress. Did someone say I'm cheap? I prefer to think of it as budget conscious!
Al



Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #673050
11/01/16 6:25 am
11/01/16 6:25 am
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,667
East Bethany New York
Dick Harris Offline
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Dick Harris  Offline
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East Bethany New York
Good job Al,I'll be really interested in seeing and hearing your new baby. I have lots of bits and parts around here if I can be of any help. Dick

Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #673207
11/02/16 1:14 pm
11/02/16 1:14 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Hello Dick! Does "bits and parts" include engines?! I'm very unsure of my $200 engine purchase.


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #673210
11/02/16 2:23 pm
11/02/16 2:23 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,115
Westminster, MD, USA
J
J. Charles Smith Offline
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J. Charles Smith  Offline
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J

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,115
Westminster, MD, USA
Al, the Mojave footrest supports are quite weak - go over a jump and they will bend down suddenly, just ride it and they will bend down slowly. You may want to weld a reinforcing rib, like maybe 1/2" angle channel, to the undersides.

Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #673219
11/02/16 4:27 pm
11/02/16 4:27 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Thanks J Charles, I'll make a note. I can add some reinforcement when I add the mounting piece (it will mount like a Triumph footrest with dowels. Those Mojave rests are quite thin.
Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #673270
11/03/16 8:28 am
11/03/16 8:28 am
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,667
East Bethany New York
Dick Harris Offline
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Dick Harris  Offline
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Posts: 1,667
East Bethany New York
Morn'n Al, no engines but most anything you would need to fix the one you have. Dick

Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #673295
11/03/16 1:10 pm
11/03/16 1:10 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Good news Dick. Thank you.


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #675744
11/27/16 4:57 pm
11/27/16 4:57 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

BritBike Forum member
Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
I have been working on the rear engine mounts. Using Triumph plates as a basis, I had to weld some holes shut to start with. Then I drilled a 1-3/8" hole with a hole saw for access to the swingarm pin and locknut.
[Linked Image]
This is still in a rough draft stage. The actual frame mounts for this plate will be 2 holes centered over and under the big hole. Possible set up could be spacers brazed onto the back of the plate and bolting thru the frame/swingarm gusset. There's about 3/8" or 1/2" gap between the engine plate and frame plate.

Other side with a shiny hole plug I found that may look nice.
[Linked Image]
Earlier J.Charles Smith commented that the Mojave footrests could use some reinforcement. I cut some tubing and shaped it to the footrest and welded it. OK... So I am not the best welder but some things I have to do myself to save expense and just get it done. I have this one hand filed but not quite finished yet.
[Linked Image]
The welder is one of those 110 volt AC welders with flux core wire. I'm not real good at using it but at least its solidly welded. The imperfections may get filled with a smear of fiberglass filler - if it needs it.
[Linked Image]
The large round thick washer that is welded on the footrest mount will hold dowels for positioning on the engine plate. It will mount like a stock late 60's Triumph.
Don't forget - critical comments welcome maybe even needed.
Regards
Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #676756
12/06/16 10:33 pm
12/06/16 10:33 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Al Eckstadt Offline OP

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Al Eckstadt  Offline OP

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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,767
Jordan, NY
Hand filed those awful welds:
[Linked Image]
And smeared some filler putty in the uneven spots, hand sanded and spray primed:
[Linked Image]
They came out nice - reinforced and should be sturdy.
Next task is to get the folding Triumph passenger pegs to fit these mounts. The narrow profile of the Triumph rubber will give plenty of room for the kick lever to clear.
The Triumph pivot is the correct width but they need some filler material so it will fold/unfold correctly (essentially - to stop at level when unfolded and not fold in too far when folded). I brazed a piece of keystock to the cam part of the footrest and that will be ground to the correct shape.
More soon.
Al


Al Eckstadt
Re: Project 39-1/2 Update - 10/30/16 [Re: Al Eckstadt] #676817
12/07/16 1:57 pm
12/07/16 1:57 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,115
Westminster, MD, USA
J
J. Charles Smith Offline
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J. Charles Smith  Offline
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J

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,115
Westminster, MD, USA
Great job on those footpegs, Al. They look better than stock!

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