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Drive Chain lubrication #638673
02/05/16 4:34 pm
02/05/16 4:34 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
BrettF Offline OP
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BrettF  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
Hi Folks I know this is a stupid question that must have been discussed before but I can not find the answer on the forum search.

I was taking good care of my new chain (I thought) spraying it with chain oil and then with chain wax at regular intervals, however I have taken it off while fixing a few other things and was surprised by the bad state it was in (only about 1000 miles on it).

What is the consensus (if I may be so bold to assume there is one:-) ) as to how to oil it both off the bike and on.
Boil it in oil / grease / propriotary goo?
Spray with the usal graphite sprays?

Aplogies if this starts an oil-type war.

Thanks

Brett


3D TV: A format that lost a format war without even having an opponent.
Bikes:
'69 T120 on average (1967 rolling frame and 1971 Bonnie engine)
'56 1/2 T110 on average (58 rolling frame - with 55 iron head engine)
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Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638687
02/05/16 5:29 pm
02/05/16 5:29 pm
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,520
Back on the mainland!
JubeePrince Offline

Born To Run
JubeePrince  Offline

Born To Run

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,520
Back on the mainland!
Originally Posted by BrettF
however I have taken it off while fixing a few other things and was surprised by the bad state it was in (only about 1000 miles on it).


Hi Brett -

Define 'bad state'. Broken/cracked rollers? Axial or radial play in the links? Stretched beyond adjustment? Rusted?

As with most things for these old bikes, there's well-built parts, then there's crap.

I've never boiled my chain. I probably have about 7-8K miles on it, I think I cleaned it in kerosene once. I just hit it regularly with motorcycle chain lube, but I always do it right after a ride when the chain is still warm.

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: JubeePrince] #638699
02/05/16 6:43 pm
02/05/16 6:43 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,863
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Offline
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desco  Offline
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D

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,863
Bishop, Calif.
I don't think mixing oil & wax is a good idea. I like PJ1. It doesn't fling off as bad as some. I also take the chain off, clean it with some spray cleaner, then lay it stretched out on a board or piece of cardboard to lube it. Before you take the chain off, hook another chain to it and pull that one over the sprockets. Hook the freshly lubed chain back up to it and reverse the procedure. Makes chain replacement easy.
Good chain costs good money.
Check adjustment frequently.


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638700
02/05/16 7:00 pm
02/05/16 7:00 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
BrettF Offline OP
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BrettF  Offline OP
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Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
Hi,

Its a standard Reynolds chain, was primarily rusty and seemed very dry of lubrication, no physical damage. When I took them master link out it was rusted along the pins, which makes me think it is rusted in all the other pins too.

Thanks for the ideas.

Brett


3D TV: A format that lost a format war without even having an opponent.
Bikes:
'69 T120 on average (1967 rolling frame and 1971 Bonnie engine)
'56 1/2 T110 on average (58 rolling frame - with 55 iron head engine)
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638704
02/05/16 7:12 pm
02/05/16 7:12 pm
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,863
Bishop, Calif.
D
desco Offline
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desco  Offline
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D

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,863
Bishop, Calif.
Do you ride in the rain or use a pressure washer to clean the bike?


1968 T120R
1972 T120RV
Any advice given is without a warranty expressed or implied.
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638710
02/05/16 7:31 pm
02/05/16 7:31 pm
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,013
New Zealand
Excalibur Offline
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Excalibur  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,013
New Zealand
I like Motul chain lube, the black can. I started using it on high speed open primary chains and it hangs on much better than others I tried. Yes, on the competiton bikes the primary chain was totally dry after just 6 laps! Not so with Motul, it was step forward. So if it works that good on open primary chain, then rear chains would be easier going, so I've used it ever since. No oil wars please, just saying, worth a try. laugh

Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: Excalibur] #638715
02/05/16 8:13 pm
02/05/16 8:13 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 763
USA
Dave M Offline
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Dave M  Offline
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Posts: 763
USA
Chains need to be warm before using lubes like chain wax.
John Healy has cautioned, a sure way to wear a chain is to spray it BEFORE a ride. HTH.


66 TR6R Trophy
67 T120R Bonneville
68 BMW R60/US
69 T100R Daytona
91 Honda ST1100
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638726
02/05/16 9:49 pm
02/05/16 9:49 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,503
ohio, usa
kevin roberts Online content

DOPE
kevin roberts  Online Content

DOPE

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,503
ohio, usa
clean em in the parts washer, then oil em up. no grit, no grease, like oiling a new chain.


"Are bikes so nice as all that?" asked the mole, shyly...

"Nice? They're the only thing," said the Water Rat Solemnly, as he leaned forward on the handlebars. "Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- half so much worth doing as simply messing about with bikes."
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638740
02/05/16 11:17 pm
02/05/16 11:17 pm
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 181
Quebec Canada
H
Hermit Offline

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Hermit  Offline

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H

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 181
Quebec Canada
I ride a lot on gravel roads and I clean the Bonnie's chain every 1000 miles when I change crankcase and primary chaincase oils.

As previously suggested, I pull an old chain on as I pull off the chain to be cleaned. Coil the removed chain up at the bottom of a large pot (4qt). Add a 1/2 cup of kerosene and swirl it all around for a minute. Drain and repeat until kerosene remains clear - about five or six times. Then blow the chain off with compressed air.

Each time you drain the kerosene, use a rag to remove all the grit and sludge that will settle out when you tip the pot. You'll be surprised by the amount of grit that comes out of a chain - sometimes 2 or 3 teaspoons.

When you drain the dirty kerosene off, save it in a good container and set it aside. The finest grit will settle to the bottom by the next time it's time to clean the chain. You can reuse the kerosene many, many times.

While the primary chain case drains overnight I let the clean chain soak in the cleaning pot covered in heavy weight chainsaw bar oil - the thick, viscous, red stuff. Next morning, hang it up to drip and then wipe down with a clean rag before re-installing.

Desco mentioned importance of chain adjustment, i.e. tension. It's also very important to keep your bike's rear tire properly aligned as well. I like the mason line method of tire alignment. For a few tips on using this method see www.hermit.cc/tmc/technote/alignment/index.htm

Finally, I agree with the warm chain idea. I keep a gear oil bottle full of bar oil and each time I return to the Bonnie Castle from a ride I spin the rear wheel with the bike on the center stand and squeeze a little oil over the chain just in front of the swinging arem.

Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638758
02/06/16 3:37 am
02/06/16 3:37 am
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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S

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
Hi Brett,

Originally Posted by BrettF
Its a standard Reynolds chain,

Assuming you mean "Renold", as used to be made in Manchester and supplied to BritBike makers, bear in mind it's been made in China for years and whatever now owns the "Renold" name don't recommend any of their current chain for motorcycle use ... After a bad experience with a Renold back in the 1980's, I've always used Japanese since.

Originally Posted by BrettF
When I took them master link out it was rusted along the pins,

Which unfortunately suggests whatever you're using/doing isn't working. frown

I like continuous lubrication ... the chain is running continuously when the bike's in use ... seems logical to me? After all, it's something like eighty years since anyone thought is was ok to hand-operate an engine oil pump every now-and-then?

I favour a Scottoiler. But, if you don't want to drill and tap a manifold, there are plenty of similar systems that use other ways of operating the pump.

Put it this way - I first used a Scottoiler on a Jap bike I was using on a daily 70-mile round trip in the early 1990's, I installed it with a new chain and the bike did about 10,000 miles in the first year, which used up about half the adjustment; I still have the bike and the chain, it still has probably a quarter(?) of the adjustment left. So far, I've yet to replace a Scottoiler-lubed chain.

Nice thing about a continuously-lubed chain is you don't need to do anything to it after a wet ride, you don't need to do anything to it after a dusty ride, it isn't rusted to a solid bar if you haven't used the bike over the winter ...

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638835
02/06/16 5:35 pm
02/06/16 5:35 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
BrettF Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
BrettF  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
Interesting information about the renold chain, mine came in a box labeled specifically as renold motorcycle chain Manchester England, and it was from a reputable supplier (walridge). It seems high quality.

Are you sure these are Chinese non-motorcycle chains? seems unlikely to me

Mike(partridge), can you chime in?

Brett

Last edited by BrettF; 02/06/16 8:22 pm.

3D TV: A format that lost a format war without even having an opponent.
Bikes:
'69 T120 on average (1967 rolling frame and 1971 Bonnie engine)
'56 1/2 T110 on average (58 rolling frame - with 55 iron head engine)
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638839
02/06/16 6:06 pm
02/06/16 6:06 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,091
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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HawaiianTiger  Offline
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Posts: 6,091
Maui Hawaii
Depends entirely upon the type of chain lube you are using. Most of them contain a volatile element designed to decrease the viscosity enough so that it will penetrate the links of a cold chain. If you spray this on a hot chain, my thinking is that the volatiles will immediately boil off and prevent the then thick and viscous lube from penetrating.

Or not, but the chain lube makers aren't complete idiots. They know that most of us will be spraying the lube on a cold chain and have compensated for that.

I don't have chain wear problems even though I've never sprayed chain lube on a hot chain. Just saying. Perhaps check the chain lube instructions and follow those. You should be fine

As far as genuine Renold chain, I think by now the existing stock of the real thing has probably dried up mostly. You might find some of the odd sizes still....

It's a travesty that we can't get the original and still the best Renold chain. I think it was miles above any of the competition based on my own rather severe testing and it actually fits our bikes without banging and grinding against parts down there.

I've heard good things about the Jwis chains, and although I've never had the opportunity to use it, I think it could be a winner.

By the way, how do you pronounce that, anyway? I've always thought it might be Gee whiz.....or something.

Now, riding in the rain is the best way to ruin a chain. You would really need some continuous lube if you rode every day in the rain or you would be changing chains monthly.

Oddly enough, the fastest wearing chain I've ever had was an O ring chain. I paid 50$ for it and it was pretty with a gold plated finish, but it was basically junk. Just saying, you might just get what you pay for....

Cheers,

Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638853
02/06/16 7:43 pm
02/06/16 7:43 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,236
Boston, Massachusetts
J
John Healy Online content

BritBike Forum member
John Healy  Online Content

BritBike Forum member
J

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,236
Boston, Massachusetts
Quote
They know that most of us will be spraying the lube on a cold chain and have compensated for that.


As mentioned above spraying chain lube on a cold chain, and going for a ride, lubes everything, but the chain. It just flings off from centripetal force.

Not if you bought a bike from our dealership. We encouraged owners to lubricate their chain just before putting the bike away after a ride. Also when riding in the rain to lubricate the chain at intervals during the ride. Owning a shop the only time I got to ride long distances was when the weather forecast predicted several days of rain. With the shop quiet my wife, and the help, would set me off to get me out of the way... Always got cranky when things were slow. Dunking the chain in melted chain lube, and using TriCor chain lube during those rainy days, I got damn good service from chains.

When we raced we would keep two chains and swap them out before each race weekend. When we took one off it went straight into the can of melted chain lubricant and left hang to dry. This way we would get several racing seasons out of these chains.

David Holder holds large stocks of that Renold chain.


Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: Dave M] #638854
02/06/16 7:54 pm
02/06/16 7:54 pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,597
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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TR6Ray  Offline

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Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by Dave M
Chains need to be warm before using lubes like chain wax.
John Healy has cautioned, a sure way to wear a chain is to spray it BEFORE a ride. HTH.

I agree with Dave. I spray mine with Chain Wax after a ride, while the chain is still warm.

Maybe once a year, I pull the chain (using an old chain as described above). I coil the chain into a round 9" metal cake pan that I stole from the kitchen. I got caught the first time, and the wife rolled her eyes and said she didn't want the pan back. I clean the chain in mineral spirits, letting it soak and then scrubbing it with a stiff parts cleaning brush. When it is clean, I blow it off with compressed air and let it dry. Then I clean out the cake pan and coil the chain back into it. I heat it up with my heat gun till it is maybe a little warmer than it would be after a ride. While it is good and warm I spray it liberally with the Chain Wax and let it set up.

Well, that's what I do -- Stuart's Scott Chain Oiler is probably the more sensible way to go, but I never claimed to be the sharpest crayon in the box. Plus, there is no throw-off with the Maxima Chain Wax.

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638864
02/06/16 8:47 pm
02/06/16 8:47 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
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Stuart  Offline
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S

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
Hi Brett,

According to Renold's website, the head office address is "Trident 2, Trident Business Park, Styal Road, Wythenshawe, Manchester M22 5XB. Afaict, this is Google Street View.

Couldn't find anything on the Renold website specifically relating to motorcycle chains?

Regards,

Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: ] #638866
02/06/16 8:56 pm
02/06/16 8:56 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Offline
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S

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
Hi Owen,

Originally Posted by needing
Use an o-ring chain if possible.

Unfortunately, these old heaps pre-date certainly the wide availability of '-ring' chains, the designers of the engines didn't leave enough clearance for the additional width of '-ring' chains so, if you want to use one, you have to faff around having sprockets ground so you can use a 520 or 525 chain. frown

Otoh, Fraser Scott advised me back in the 1990's that a Scottoiler'd work perfectly well with a conventional non'-ring' chain. smile

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638871
02/06/16 9:22 pm
02/06/16 9:22 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,091
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
BritBike Forum member
HawaiianTiger  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,091
Maui Hawaii
I got decidedly different service from race bike chains as opposed to street bike chains and the service I gave them differed, too.

My Speedway chains got thoroughly cleaned then cooked in a pot of various types of lubricants mixed together, just like a lot of folks here do, as frequently as I could. I raced as many as four nights a week and it just wasn't possible to do it after each race. The thing was to get it REALLY clean before lubing it.

Which casts some suspicion on spray lubing a street bike chain in situ whether hot or cold. You just might be chasing dirt INTO the rollers and doing more harm than good. Perhaps it would be better to use a high pressure wand with solvent before you ever sprayed the chain down with lube.

However, we're talking about street bikes here, not race bikes and not bikes that make 150bhp, either. However, the power is not always the culprit when it comes to rapid wear, either. Big displacement singles are in my opinion much harder on chains that multis....

But dirt is a killer of chains, so combining high bhp with dirt means a short life for a chain. Nothing could be harsher on a chain than a Speedway bike, I think.

Knock on wood, I've never thrown a chain. But, lots of folks have based on the basket cases I've worked on over the years. Seems like it was common occurance...

I should have thought that my 850 Commando would eat chains for lunch, but it has not been the case. Near 60k miles now and only two chains means to me that the shock absorber in the wheel hub is doing its job nicely. Without that, no chain could last very long, chain lube or not.

Cheers,

Bill





Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638884
02/06/16 10:11 pm
02/06/16 10:11 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,571
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,571
Owego, NY, USA
This has been an elucidating discussion on chain lubes and oiling techniques, but...

Brett said that the observable problem is rust, and there's only one way that can happen: Water or moisture was allowed to remain on the chain.

No matter what your lube of choice (FWIW, I like Chainwax), the chain must be lubricated any and every time it gets wet, either from riding in the rain or washing the bike. Make sure the chain is well lubricated when put up for storage, especially if stored in a damp place.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: Mark Z] #638895
02/06/16 11:36 pm
02/06/16 11:36 pm
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
BrettF Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
BrettF  Offline OP
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Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
Thanks for all the help Folks.

I've only ever once been caught in a short downpour, obviously did not lube it enough after. I'm going to try it in melted grease type stuff just for the hell of i, along with better oiling afterwards.

Here is a pic of the Renolds Chain Packaging.

Might have been old Stock?

[Linked Image]

Last edited by BrettF; 02/06/16 11:38 pm.

3D TV: A format that lost a format war without even having an opponent.
Bikes:
'69 T120 on average (1967 rolling frame and 1971 Bonnie engine)
'56 1/2 T110 on average (58 rolling frame - with 55 iron head engine)
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638903
02/07/16 12:29 am
02/07/16 12:29 am
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,571
Owego, NY, USA
Mark Z Offline
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Mark Z  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,571
Owego, NY, USA
Hmm, that's another possibility, that the rust was there when you got it.

If there isn't much corrosion, the chain can be salvaged, but before greasing, I would soak it in kerosene, then hang it up and blow it out with compressed air.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638929
02/07/16 6:08 am
02/07/16 6:08 am
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,703
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
D
dave jones Offline
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D

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,703
Emsworth, sunny south of Engla...
I use the old fashioned system but with a more modern lubricant. Every 1000 miles I clean the chain really thoroughly in a solvent bath and then use Putoline chain wax that you heat up. When the chain is soaked in this it gets right in to the moving parts. I then use Wurth dry chain lube every so often. This latter stuff is the best one I have found in a spray can. It is very thin when it goes on and could probably be used on its own. My chain hardly ever needs adjusting.

In the past I have had terrible trouble when using a spray other than the Wurth and no chain bath. If I left the bike a week after a ride the chain would be seized up in parts with patches of rust. It's the salt on the winter roads, I think.

Stuart's Scott oiler is a good idea.

dave

Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: dave jones] #638956
02/07/16 9:49 am
02/07/16 9:49 am
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,135
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA
kurt fischer Offline

#irideslow
kurt fischer  Offline

#irideslow

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,135
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA
Here's one chain discussion from '14. A good subject to re-visit now and then to see what people are doing.

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=564640


Kurt
1968-70-71 Triumph TR6R Bitsa - 1969 Triumph TR6R - 1971 BSA A65L - 1973 Triumph TR5T
2005 Ducati MTS 1000S DS - 2012 Ducati Hyper 796 - 2014 Kawasaki ZX1000
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: BrettF] #638990
02/07/16 12:57 pm
02/07/16 12:57 pm
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland
S
Stuart Offline
BritBike Forum member
Stuart  Offline
BritBike Forum member
S

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,261
Scotland

Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: Stuart] #638997
02/07/16 1:23 pm
02/07/16 1:23 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,107
Running from demons in WNY
Hillbilly bike Offline
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Running from demons in WNY
I used to ride my 67 650 about 3000 miles a year...I changed the oil twice during the riding season..I took the chain off and soaked it in the engine drain oil for an hour then hung it up overnight....The chain lasted 5 years..


I take off bike parts until it doesn't function, then put on just enough so it functions
Re: Drive Chain lubrication [Re: Hillbilly bike] #647122
04/04/16 9:20 am
04/04/16 9:20 am
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
BrettF Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
BrettF  Offline OP
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Posts: 420
Geneva, Switzerland
Hi Folks, reviving an old thread but I thought about this question (reynolds chain quality) this weekend and did a bit of googling, it seems there was a public spat some years ago regarding the fact that the reynolds chains were alleged to not meet the relevant standards. This was later retracted.

FYI, here is the link I found.

http://www.jampot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13660

Regards

Brett


3D TV: A format that lost a format war without even having an opponent.
Bikes:
'69 T120 on average (1967 rolling frame and 1971 Bonnie engine)
'56 1/2 T110 on average (58 rolling frame - with 55 iron head engine)

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