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Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #619830 09/30/15 3:23 pm
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Hi Jez,

Originally Posted by lace remington
would the top fork caps have to be loosened as well as all the pinch bolts?

No. The stanchions can pass right through the top yoke, so only the stanchion pinch bolts in the yoke need to be undone.

Originally Posted by lace remington
any proper sequence.

I would start at the top yoke and work down. Tighten the bolts at each level and bounce the suspension again before moving to the next level.

Hth.

Regards,

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Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #619845 09/30/15 4:44 pm
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any proper sequence?

What I use assumes I am rebuilding the front end and the springs are not yet in the stanchions. I test each slider to make sure they slide without any stiction. Then I assemble the fork clamps, bearings, and snug that mess up so that the clamps turn but with a little resistance.

Add the stanchions with sliders and the axle and the top nut just snug. Still without springs! Grasping the axle I move the sliders up and down to see if there is any stiction. If no stiction I start to tighten things up at the top nut, top clamp, then bottom clamp, and finally the fender, testing for stiction at each point.

I look carefully across the two stanchions to see if they are parallel to each other.

Add springs, oil, front wheel, and it should be good to go.

If you don't trust your eyes when sighting for parallel, a piece of 1/4" plate glass about 10" square works well. If all four corners of the plate don't touch the stanchion tubes, something is not right.


Gale Gorman
Houston
1974 Triumph Trident
1983 BMW R100S
Re: t160 rear brake
GaleGorman #619910 10/01/15 12:57 am
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Hi Gale,

Originally Posted by GaleGorman
a piece of 1/4" plate glass about 10" square

Like. :bigt

Regards,

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #619923 10/01/15 4:13 am
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Hi Lace
What bars do you Have fitted ?

I had a T160 in 1977 ( first and only brand new bike ) that had the export bars fitted

I was never overly impressed by the handling as it seemed to wallow in corners

My friend had a T160 at same time with UK bars and it handled so much better than mine

I think due to more weight placed on the front end

Ive removed the export bars on my current T160 and fitted UK bars and it handles great

Never rode it more than initial test ride with the export bars and most of that on dual carriageway but that was over a year ago so I don't recall how it handled

Sounds like you have an issue somewhere though as my old bike wasn't as bad as you describe

Cheers Murray

Re: t160 rear brake
Murray #619952 10/01/15 11:04 am
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I bought a '74 T150V new in Nevada and we changed out the bars before I left the dealership. I think I chose bars from a Norton Interstate UK version. It handled great and I just didn't like the look of the high rise bars.

Your idea on weight distribution is probably right on target. I saw a video a few years ago where the rider stopped a high speed wobble by just laying over on the tank. That changes the weight distribution as well as taking away air resistance so it's hard to say what worked.

My current Trident has bars from a BMW R90S. They are narrow with about a 2" rise.


Gale Gorman
Houston
1974 Triumph Trident
1983 BMW R100S
Re: t160 rear brake
GaleGorman #619984 10/01/15 2:02 pm
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hi murray, uk bike with uk bars , i'm gonna try and align the forks, yet in the manual section F15 removing and replacing the front wheel it says on refitting, the nuts on the LEFT side leg should be fully tightened bla bla, to ensure correct alignment of the spindle with the fork LEFT leg.,. now turn to section G4 fork alignment it says the nuts on the RIGHT side leg should be tight and the LEFT loosened off? to align the forks then must be opposite to replacing the wheel, yet if you undo the left side you are effectivly tightening up contrary to replacing the wheel if you get my drift what do you reckon? also loosen the stantion top caps, stuart reckons they don't need to be loosened, not sure i do either, it'll only take a bit of pressure off the springs surely. jez.

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620012 10/01/15 3:55 pm
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Originally Posted by lace remington
now turn to section G4 fork alignment it says the nuts on the RIGHT side leg should be tight and the LEFT loosened off? to align the forks then must be opposite to replacing the wheel, yet if you undo the left side you are effectivly tightening up contrary to replacing the wheel if you get my drift what do you reckon?


Sometimes the information in these manuals is copied from earlier versions without being amended, and I think that's what may have happened here, as "tightening the right hand cap first" would apply to an earlier model with a drum brake, however if you understand what you are doing then it should be reasonably clear that the object of the exercise is to ensure the disc hub bearing retainer (37-4133) remains located tight up against the LH fork slider.


Originally Posted by lace remington
also loosen the stantion top caps, stuart reckons they don't need to be loosened, not sure i do either, it'll only take a bit of pressure off the springs surely. jez.


On a T160 the stanchion top cap nuts (as in the alloy caps not the plastic cap covers) do not have to be loosened unless you want to test the action of each fork leg without the spring force.

What is your method for adjusting the steering head bearings? As the information to "tighten the adjusting nut 'B'....until only a trace of play is present..." is also wrong in my opinion (because they're taper roller bearings), and I prefer to tighten the nut until the bearings begin to preload and then back it off until the forks are just free enough to fall to the lock stops on either side.

Another example of incorrect information being carried over from a previous manual is the "Front wheel spindle cap bolt" torque figure of "23 - 25 lb. ft" given in the General Data section of the T160 manual (also wrong in the T140V manual). This should be 15 lb.ft.

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620033 10/01/15 5:54 pm
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Have you checked the fork oil ?
If not drain both forks and refill with the correct quantity

Cheers Murray

Re: t160 rear brake
L.A.B. #620078 10/01/15 11:06 pm
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An interesting tidbit from "Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" was that for a while the author made his living writing technical manuals and of course he only knew about writing. So he would go to a factory and the management assigned someone to relate what the plant was doing at each step.

Pirsig knew it was only logical the factory did not take their brightest or fastest worker out of the assembly process to help him write a manual. So it must follow they offered up their dimmest and slowest.

And that is probably why we find so much ambiguous stuff in manuals.

I think the book came out about the time I bought a new '74 T150.

Last edited by GaleGorman; 10/01/15 11:07 pm.

Gale Gorman
Houston
1974 Triumph Trident
1983 BMW R100S
Re: t160 rear brake
GaleGorman #620607 10/05/15 11:26 am
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hi still trying to find the cause of the low speed wobble, have aligned the forks as stuart suggested, and still the same. just adjusted the head bearings as lab suggested, and must say i got a good half turn on the large nut before it tightened up the steering, (although i couldn't feel or see any play in the head when pumping the forks up and down before adjustment). strange that? backed it off a midges untill the forks fell to the stops and i will take her out to-morrow sometime, thanks for the input.

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620793 10/06/15 2:24 pm
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i think i might of found the cause of this wobble, i took the back wheel off today and noticed that the bottom of the speedo drive was worn in a curved groove by one of the 4 bolt head threads that hold the sprocket and disc on, on closer inspection there is hardly any gap as these bolts spin past the speedo drive body, about a couple thou if that and of course one is constantly rubbing it. tonight i have filed the roughness off the drive unit but i'm not happy with the gap. to-morrow i am going to grind the excess bolt thread off as the nuts won't shift to wind them out and knock the bolt through a bit more to the disc side. any one else come across this?

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620799 10/06/15 2:52 pm
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Hi Jez,

Originally Posted by lace remington
bottom of the speedo drive was worn in a curved groove by one of the 4 bolt head threads that hold the sprocket and disc on, on closer inspection there is hardly any gap as these bolts spin past the speedo drive body, about a couple thou if that and of course one is constantly rubbing it.
to-morrow i am going to grind the excess bolt thread off as the nuts won't shift to wind them out and knock the bolt through a bit more to the disc side.

Mmmm ... ime, you need to make some checks first ...

Sounds as if someone who worked on the rear wheel has screwed up. The sprocket/disc mounting aren't "bolts" but stepped studs - 7/16"UNF at the sprocket end, 3/8"UNF at the disc end.

I suspect you might find the reason "the nuts won't shift" is the numpty who did 'em up last just put spanners on each sprocket nut and the corresponding disc nut and tightened 'em - trouble with that is, the disc nuts are self-locking, so have more friction than the plain sprocket nuts ... so the disc nut won't tighten 'til the sprocket nut is locked on the end of the stud thread ... if the stud thread is longer than the nut ... duh!

Don't simply "grind the excess [sprocket end] thread off" before checking that stud thread is protruding through the disc nuts; you might find that everything's correct when the stud 'steps' are butted up against the disc by the disc nuts, but I can't guarantee that.

Before I replaced the studs in my T160's spoked wheel with ones with exactly the right thread length for the nuts, I used a "stud locking tool" (for want of a better term) to hold the sprocket end of each stud while I set the position of the corresponding disc nut; then, when everything was tight, the sprocket end of each stud was exactly flush with the top of the nut. Yes, it does take some faffing about ... whistle.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: t160 rear brake
Stuart #620806 10/06/15 4:21 pm
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yes your right stuart, exactly as you described it, now the nuts on the disc side are just flush with their threads, any idea how to loosen the nuts on the sprocket side? without ruining the shaft. or should i just grind the protruding thread off each one.

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620842 10/07/15 12:29 am
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Hi Jez,

Originally Posted by lace remington
any idea how to loosen the nuts on the sprocket side? without ruining the shaft.

As I say, I use what I call a "stud locking tool" - can be used for both installation and extraction.

You can buy 'em - there are cheap ones and more expensive ones (you'd need a UNF set). However, many years ago, the engineer I was using at the time to make special bits knocked up a set of something similar from bits of scrap hex. bar. :bigt Each one I have is about 1" length of bar, drilled and tapped down the centre with a given thread (you'd need at least a 3/8"UNF one and a 7/16"UNF one). The idea is you screw the hex. bar on to the stud thread for no more than half the bar's length, screw a bolt of the same thread into the bar's unused thread 'til the end of the bolt reaches the end of the stud, hold the hex. bar with one spanner while you tighten the the bolt on to the stud with another spanner. You can then turn the stud with either the bolt head (clockwise) or the hex. bar (anti-clockwise).

You'd first need to undo the nuts on each stud. If you're lucky, the 7/16"UNF sprocket nut will come off first; :bigt then you just need to attach your 7/16"UNF "stud locking tool", wind the 3/8"UNF disc nut on to the stud a bit more, remove the "stud locking tool", and reinstall the sprocket nut.

Otoh, most likely is the disc nut will come off. frown Then you'll need to attach your 3/8"UNF "stud locking tool" and undo the 7/16"UNF nut, then proceed as above.

Originally Posted by lace remington
or should i just grind the protruding thread off each one.

frown You'd be bodging it, as opposed to doing the job properly. As you say, the disc nuts aren't properly installed and, when you "just grind the protruding thread off [the sprocket end of] each [stud]", the sprocket nuts might be difficult to remove next time because of swarf, will always be difficult to reinstall thereafter because you've ground off the end taper and the ends of the studs will go rusty.

Hth.

Regards,

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620856 10/07/15 6:33 am
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hi stuart, bit of bad news i'm afraid, looking at it properly this morning the previous owner or owners have already bodged and butchered the end of the threads on the sprocket side, so i have reduced them in size a bit more, only solution for now. also lightly grinded and filed the body of the speedo especially underneath where it is at it's fatest, this is where the the groove has appeared., the studs are now free to rotate, but just. and the nuts on the disc side are just on a full thread, been like this for years i reckon. i have an idea to replace the 4 studs with bolts and just tighten up on the disc side, what do you reckon? any idea where to source these from, thanks for your replies. jez.

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620881 10/07/15 10:33 am
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Hi Jez,

Originally Posted by lace remington
i have an idea to replace the 4 studs with bolts and just tighten up on the disc side,

Problem is, as I say, sprocket mounting is 7/16"UNF, holes all the way through the hub are 7/16", only the mounting holes in the disc are 3/8". So you could only use 3/8" bolts, you would have to have very-accurately-made 3/8" i.d./7/16" o.d. spacers, but the fact that the T160 has 7/16" sprocket mounting while the twins have 3/8" suggests 3/8" was deemed too weak for the triple?

Hth.

Regards,

Re: t160 rear brake
Stuart #620896 10/07/15 12:09 pm
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They seem to be available from LP Williams

37-4272 for the bolt

14-1903 for the Nut

70-8870 and 71-4045 for the 2 washers

Described as a bolt though and not as stud as described by Stuart and as fitted to mine

HTH

Cheers Murray

Last edited by Murray; 10/08/15 1:27 pm.
Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620914 10/07/15 1:25 pm
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nice one murray, lp williams was my next move, but that's strange after what stuart has said about the sizes varying, have you heard of these bolts for the t160 stuart?

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #620998 10/08/15 5:38 am
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after speaking to lp, 32-4272, is a stud as original, not a bolt as we thought murray. "so stuart was right in thinking that a bolt might not do in this situation".. with 2 nuts at each end, so happy days. thanks everyone. sure many other probs will arise though. jez.

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #621002 10/08/15 6:54 am
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Hi Jez,

Originally Posted by lace remington
so happy days.

Pleased to be of help.

Btw, they're 37-4272. wink

Regards,

Re: t160 rear brake
Stuart #621047 10/08/15 1:28 pm
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Numerical Dyslexia blush

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #621302 10/10/15 11:41 am
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murray my man, that hot disc problem. it was exactly the same as yours , the caliper not central on the disc. i put 2 extra washers on the bolts on the right side as well, centred it perfect but i left the the others on so have 6 washers 3 each side, i wonder if previous owners left them off by mistake easy to do i suppose. not sure of the proper set up, but the disc is free'er than it's ever been, pissed about with that for hours, but if you looked from the back you could see it was miles out, i thought that was correct but wierd? with the pads out you could get your finger in the left pad gap but not the right one. you would think the piston would of compensated for the gap but of course it was to narrow. thanks for the info star man. jez.

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #621309 10/10/15 12:25 pm
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Originally Posted by lace remington
i put 2 extra washers on the bolts on the right side as well, centred it perfect but i left the the others on so have 6 washers 3 each side, i wonder if previous owners left them off by mistake easy to do i suppose. not sure of the proper set up,


Well, there are only two "caliper anchor plate bolt" washers listed in the parts book, presumably they're intended to go beneath the nuts (so none under the bolt heads either) however it seems that additional washers are often needed to centralise the caliper, and it's the same for my T160.

Re: t160 rear brake
lace remington #621400 10/11/15 1:08 pm
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I suppose with 40 year old bikes there are not many problems occur that haven't been seen by somebody before

It was a simple fix in the end at least

I didn't spot the disc not centralised till I'd fitted new master cylinder

So obvious once you spot it !!!!!!!!

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