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Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #594743 04/13/15 9:45 am
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Hi Barreto,

Here is the header you want that fits your bike.

https://www.armoursltd.co.uk/product/siamesepipe-bsa-a65-a50-oil-in-frame-models/

Good luck.

SG


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Re: New BSA owner [Re: Semper Gumby] #599930 05/17/15 9:40 pm
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Originally Posted by Semper Gumby
Hi Barreto,

Here is the header you want that fits your bike.

https://www.armoursltd.co.uk/product/siamesepipe-bsa-a65-a50-oil-in-frame-models/

Good luck.

SG


Thank you! I actually found this in a round about way by finding a 71 BSA for sale in Australia that had these pipes and emailed the seller about them. He pointed me to them as well. Not sure how I didn't find them in my thousands of google searches.

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #599954 05/17/15 11:36 pm
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I'm having a new problem with my BSA- After getting the pipes installed and a few odds and ends buttoned up, I took the bike for a ride to see how well everything was working.

After the bike warmed up, it would not downshift out of 3rd to 2nd or a lower gear. It would shift fine from 4th to 3rd, but not any lower. I pulled over and turned it off to see what was wrong with the shifter. If I pushed the shifter in toward the engine, it would shift down, but it took a bit of force to get it to do so.

I took the shifter side apart today and this is how it all looks-
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

It's as if the plungers are expanding outward and aren't catching when it warms up. Is there an adjustment or way to move the plungers inward or is there something else I should be looking at?

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #599970 05/18/15 2:25 am
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From memory that looks like the wrong selector fork. The unit looks identical from the correct one, but the screw in the centre and the plate it is holding back is different. They interfere with proper engagement on the selector plate.

I have never tried modifying the plate or the screw, but it could be worth looking into.

However before you do this, do compare this part with the one in the parts book as your bike is 3-4 years younger than mine.


beerchug
Re: New BSA owner [Re: Allan Gill] #599973 05/18/15 3:10 am
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What concerns me here, is that the tabs on the kickstart ratchet pinion are not clenched over. The security of this nut is paramount. On Triumphs I use both tabs.
The point here is, that this detail could point to previous quality of work elsewhere!

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #599979 05/18/15 4:34 am
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This topic comes up regularly, the indexing selector plungers must be intact no chips, yours look OK, Alan , called this the selector fork, wrong name , the selector forks live in the gear case and are moved by the cam plate.

Your fault probably lies with a poorly adjusted return spring, its mounted to the out side of the timing case.
Heres a cut and paste from a previous thread on the same thing.

,70 and 71 motors have the gear change return spring on an eccentric mount, turning this changes spring tension for up and down motion.


If when changing up the change baulks its because the down force of the spring is not enough to recenter the index plungers ( what a mouthfull), as a test try jamming a few washers between the tails of the return spring and the steel post, spin the back wheel, with the spark plugs out and dummy fit the lever to try out the change , this will show up which side of the spring needs " helping", note the weak side and bending it in a tad is another method.

Its good to know the lay shaft endfloat, if you are going this far for some other reason, check the endfloat before pulling the whole cluster and end plate. 3 thou( just perceptible) is excellent,click - click is so so, clunk clunk is a fail.With normal wear and tear its not unusual to find greater than ideal here.
The A65 box is strong and neat but the return spring is a pain to get right. Minimising friction between the cam plate , selectors and the cam plate index plunger give the return spring less work to do, a very sweet change is possible with some judicious polishing and by cutting 2 turns from the indexing plunger spring which saves the plunger ploughing the rim of the cam plate.

There is a better write up somewhere ,

Here it is

Have a good look at camplate while you are at it, a new plate and selector forks is not bankbreaking and very good for peace of mind.
Spend time on the cam plate, clean allround the selector fork tracks with a view to a polished finish, the selector fork tracks should be closely inspected and polished using a split 1/4 dowell with 600 grit paper , a pistol drill will speed up the job.
I have also trimmed 2 turns from the camplate index plunger spring, this has improved the change a great deal with no tendency to jump or miss select ( this was a tip from SRM to combat grooving on the camplate shoulder where the plungers rubs). My 71 still wears its original needle rollers but the main BRG is new last year.
Polish the cam plate index plunger track, or at least remove obvious burrs and blend in .
When its all back together spend time adjusting the return spring eccentric mount, this can help a great deal on the 3rd down to 2nd change which is the hardest to get right from my past experience. The fault here lies in an intital miss selection from 4th down to 3rd, the gears engage but the selector has a tendency not to recentre, next change down to 2nd is then impossible, when this happens reselecting 3rd is the usual cure.
Tune this out by biasing the return spring pressure to return more from the engaged position. (Hard to describe, just fanny with it and it will work better in one direction, not difficult).THis refers to 70-72 engines only which have an eccentric spring mount giving some adjustment to even biases, earlier years , the return spring must be physically bent at the prongs to preload the return action, a bit hit or miss.
Gives a shout if youve any hassle.

This bit is VERY IMPORTANT
get a clock gauge to check the end float in the layshaft ( BEFORE you pull the tranny trapdoor), 3 thou is about
Cheers
Pod

Last edited by gavin eisler; 05/18/15 4:53 am.

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Re: New BSA owner [Re: Triless] #600007 05/18/15 9:42 am
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Originally Posted by Triless
What concerns me here, is that the tabs on the kickstart ratchet pinion are not clenched over. The security of this nut is paramount. On Triumphs I use both tabs.
The point here is, that this detail could point to previous quality of work elsewhere!


I did notice that when I took it apart and will be fixing it before I put it back together.

Re: New BSA owner [Re: gavin eisler] #600010 05/18/15 9:48 am
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
This topic comes up regularly, the indexing selector plungers must be intact no chips, yours look OK, Alan , called this the selector fork, wrong name , the selector forks live in the gear case and are moved by the cam plate.

Your fault probably lies with a poorly adjusted return spring, its mounted to the out side of the timing case.
Heres a cut and paste from a previous thread on the same thing.

,70 and 71 motors have the gear change return spring on an eccentric mount, turning this changes spring tension for up and down motion.



I'm not sure the problem is the return spring. When I was riding it, the shifter would return to center when attempting to shift from 3rd down to 2nd, but it wouldn't engage 2nd gear until I pushed the shifter shaft inward.

My concern is how close the plungers engage with the outside edge of the plunger holes on the shifter plate. Running through the gears with a little outward tension, it seems to slip and miss the plunger holes.

Would it be wrong to try modifying the shaft where it seats into the case to move the plungers inward a bit?

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600020 05/18/15 10:30 am
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You can lead a horse to water , etc, try adjusting the return spring, if that doesnt work try some other stuff.


I repeat for the hard of hearing

"spend time adjusting the return spring eccentric mount, this can help a great deal on the 3rd down to 2nd change which is the hardest to get right from my past experience. The fault here lies in an initial miss selection from 4th down to 3rd, the gears engage but the selector has a tendency not to recentre, next change down to 2nd is then impossible, when this happens reselecting 3rd is the usual cure."




It will return to centre even when it is maladjusted, read my previous post a couple of times to get your head round it, make sure you take the lay shaft end float reading, even if you dont have a clock gauge see how much slop is in the shaft by pushing and pulling on it.

"Would it be wrong to try modifying the shaft where it seats into the case to move the plungers inward a bit?"
Better to try a substitute if you are convinced this is the fault.

Last edited by gavin eisler; 05/18/15 10:34 am.

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Re: New BSA owner [Re: gavin eisler] #600027 05/18/15 10:57 am
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
You can lead a horse to water , etc, try adjusting the return spring, if that doesnt work try some other stuff.


I repeat for the hard of hearing

"spend time adjusting the return spring eccentric mount, this can help a great deal on the 3rd down to 2nd change which is the hardest to get right from my past experience. The fault here lies in an initial miss selection from 4th down to 3rd, the gears engage but the selector has a tendency not to recentre, next change down to 2nd is then impossible, when this happens reselecting 3rd is the usual cure."




It will return to centre even when it is maladjusted, read my previous post a couple of times to get your head round it, make sure you take the lay shaft end float reading, even if you dont have a clock gauge see how much slop is in the shaft by pushing and pulling on it.

"Would it be wrong to try modifying the shaft where it seats into the case to move the plungers inward a bit?"
Better to try a substitute if you are convinced this is the fault.


Understood. I wanted to make sure I addressed a potential problem inside the second case cover before I put it back together. I'll use a dowel and sandpaper to polish the shifter plate before I re-assemble it.

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600037 05/18/15 11:55 am
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The cam plate polishing usually tales place around the selector fork tracks , this means pulling the trap door to strip down, and that means removing the clutch first.


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Re: New BSA owner [Re: gavin eisler] #600046 05/18/15 1:03 pm
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
The cam plate polishing usually tales place around the selector fork tracks , this means pulling the trap door to strip down, and that means removing the clutch first.


cleaning up the outside selector plate slots doesn't help? I'll work on the shifter spring first to see if that fixes my problem before I disassemble the gear box.

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600140 05/18/15 10:44 pm
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You're all skipping over what's a very common problem with A65 shifters, that is, the shift lever slipping on its shaft.

barreto, with the shift lever in place and tightened, make a mark across the face of the shift lever and the end of the shaft. Now get down close and work the lever up and down hard, and see if there's any slippage. If there is, come back for the list of possible solutions.




Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: New BSA owner [Re: Mark Z] #600200 05/19/15 9:52 am
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Originally Posted by Mark Z
You're all skipping over what's a very common problem with A65 shifters, that is, the shift lever slipping on its shaft.

barreto, with the shift lever in place and tightened, make a mark across the face of the shift lever and the end of the shaft. Now get down close and work the lever up and down hard, and see if there's any slippage. If there is, come back for the list of possible solutions.




The splines on the shaft and lever seem to be in good shape and fit tight. I checked that before I started taking it apart.

I'm having another issue (one thing leads to another) I need to get the timing gear off the outside cover to re-assemble the inside case. It has a Boyer kit on it but the points plate won't come off the gear shaft. from all the pictures and videos I've seen, it should just be loose after removing the center hex bolt. I didn't want to pry on it at all without asking someone knowledgeable if there's a way to easily remove it? Or are the threads on the Boyer part there to push the plate off the shaft? I ran into that just before I had to leave my shop last night and didn't have much time to figure it out.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by barreto; 05/19/15 9:54 am.
Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600299 05/19/15 8:00 pm
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"from all the pictures and videos I've seen, it should just be loose after removing the center hex bolt."

Got any links for those miss- informing vids?


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Re: New BSA owner [Re: gavin eisler] #600316 05/19/15 9:54 pm
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Sorry, the only videos I found were of ignition installations before the points are pushed onto that tapered shaft. After finding the correct bolt, I quickly had it pulled off and got the bike put back together. I forgot the keys to it in the other car, so I wasn't able to see if my work helped at all.

[Linked Image]

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600356 05/20/15 5:18 am
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You do know that with the idler gear removed theres a good chance the cam will have turned under valve spring pressure and your valve timing will be out?, the manual shows how the dots should line up for correct timing.

I bet you hold on tight to the bars onthat bike with no rear mudguard!

Last edited by gavin eisler; 05/20/15 5:20 am.

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Re: New BSA owner [Re: gavin eisler] #600377 05/20/15 8:31 am
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
You do know that with the idler gear removed theres a good chance the cam will have turned under valve spring pressure and your valve timing will be out?, the manual shows how the dots should line up for correct timing.

I bet you hold on tight to the bars onthat bike with no rear mudguard!


Yes, thank you for noting that. I went through several manuals and videos to make sure I had the timing gears set correctly before I re-assembled the covers. The very old manual that came with the bike has many oily finger prints on the pages that deal with the timing. It looks like it was referenced quite a bit.

The bike on the left is basically a display bike I built for a friend's bar. He rides it every once in a while, but it mostly just sits in the bar. Not my style at all, but he brought me a picture of what he wanted, so I took it on.

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600385 05/20/15 9:14 am
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Originally Posted by barreto
Originally Posted by gavin eisler


I bet you hold on tight to the bars onthat bike with no rear mudguard!




The bike on the left is basically a display bike I built for a friend's bar. He rides it every once in a while, but it mostly just sits in the bar. Not my style at all, but he brought me a picture of what he wanted, so I took it on.


If he rides it once a while, does that mean it's legally road registered?


Current: 2 x 1966 A65S, 1 x 1967 A65SA, 1 x 69/70? A65LA space Y, 1 X D14/4 & 1 x B175
Past: 4 x 1976 T160V, 1 74/5 T150V, 83 model GSX 750 ESD, Z650, Katana 1100(Bathurst Model), 79 T140V, 70's TR6, 2 x 1971 BSA 250 Gold Stars, 50's 350 Goldie, A65 Spitfire semi basket case, 1965/6? A65 LC, Tiger 21 350 & a D14/4 Bantam, 175 Bridgestone Twin with Zimmerman discs!
Re: New BSA owner [Re: John Goodwin] #600393 05/20/15 9:49 am
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[/quote]

If he rides it once a while, does that mean it's legally road registered? [/quote]

Yes, it's fully legal here in Idaho. All you need is a headlight, tail light, and a horn. You can make almost any motorcycle road legal here. This bike does have signals front and back as well. There's a little LED strip under the seat that has the running light, brake light and signals built into it.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by barreto; 05/20/15 9:53 am.
Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600419 05/20/15 1:20 pm
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What was rhe layshaft end-float?


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Re: New BSA owner [Re: gavin eisler] #600438 05/20/15 2:49 pm
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Originally Posted by gavin eisler
What was rhe layshaft end-float?


I didn't have a gauge to measure it, but I would guess about .005". I think in your quote, it said .003" is ideal. How far out of tolerance would it need to be to start giving me problems?

I'll be taking it out this afternoon to see how it works. If I cannot get 3rd to 2nd shifts, I'll be taking it apart again.

on the eccentric spring mount, how should I be adjusting it, or which side of the shift lever should I be applying increased force with the spring for the issue I'm having?

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600473 05/20/15 6:34 pm
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To adjust the return spring eccentric, leave the outer case off, fit the gear lever, with the rear wheel off the ground and the plugs removed , spin the rear wheel and change up through the gears slowly and deliberately (this is easier if the clutch is removed , but in your case we will work with what you have).

Assuming all the up changes have been OK, but the fault remains changing down 3rd to 2nd.

Slacken the eccentric return spring centre mount and give the "top hat " or spring mount centre

( Note that the mounting hole for the spring top hat centre mount should be drilled off centre to allow this adjustment by rotation of the top hat, there have been instances when this hole has been dead centre , maybe drilled out by a DPO meaning adjustment is not possible)

a quarter turn clockwise , re-tighten the spring mount fastener, repeat the gear selection trial, note whether the 3rd to 2nd change is better or worse , if good then pat yourself on the bag and celebrate, if worse,swear loudly and forcefully, then return to the original spring position then take it a quarter turn the other way ( anticlockwise).



One way will be better than the other, keep turning the spring mount the good way till you have positive gear selection both up and down the box.

Probably quicker to do this than type it up. Its an iterative process, summed up by "just fanny with it till its right"

Your 5 thou guesstimate will maybe/probably be OK,I have seen much worse, the more sloppy the end float the worse the box performs, simple as that.


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56 Norbsa 68 Longstroke A65
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Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600481 05/20/15 7:51 pm
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I'm not sure what I did right, but I took it for a small ride this afternoon and it shifted fine through all the gears. I'll take it for a longer ride this weekend to make sure, but it appears that blind luck is on my side. I know the previous owner did a lot of work on the bottom end of this bike and maybe he had something slightly off when he assembled the shifter or shifting spring that I inadvertently corrected.

Thank you very much for all your help so far, Gavin.

Re: New BSA owner [Re: barreto] #600485 05/20/15 8:12 pm
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Result!, have fun wearing out your Beesa.


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