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1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... #584831
02/10/15 9:57 am
02/10/15 9:57 am
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,649
Douglasville (Atlanta) Georgia
DPO Offline OP
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DPO  Offline OP
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,649
Douglasville (Atlanta) Georgia
So Im surfing through Atlanta Craigslist under "used motorcycles by owner" and see this ad, a 1957 "White" that the owner knows nothing about. It looks like a BSA to me by the tank badge, but when I got him on the phone this morning, he swears it's a "White" brand, and very rare....I did Wikipedia for White motorcycles, and no results found...The guy is near the Tennessee border of Georgia, seems too far for me....can anyone identify this bike?

[Linked Image]


If you love it, let it go. If it comes back, you've highsided!"

1971 Triumph T120
2005 Triumph "America"
1976 BMW R90/6
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Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584835
02/10/15 10:24 am
02/10/15 10:24 am
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
kyrbz Offline
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kyrbz  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
White's are Hungarian made Csepel motorcycles imported and rebranded in the US during the mid 60's by White International Motors. That looks to be a 250 which is more commonly called a Csepel Pannonia. I happen to own a 57' Csepel Danuvia which is the 125cc version. Not particularly rare in eastern Europe and parts (even NOS) are relatively easy to find and inexpensive from suppliers in Hungary and Austria. I would be surprised if the one you posted a picture of is actually a 57'. I don't believe White began importing them until the mid 60's.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
My 57' Csepel Danuvia - The Danuvia is a Hungarian clone of the DKW RT125 such as the BSA Bantam was.

Last edited by kyrbz; 02/10/15 10:45 am.

BZ
58' Panther M75
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584871
02/10/15 2:50 pm
02/10/15 2:50 pm
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
kyrbz Offline
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kyrbz  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
Before White International Motors began importing and rebranding Csepel's, they were imported and sold in the late 50's/early 60's in the US for a short period by Savas Sales Company out of Owosso, Michigan. They were sold as their correct Csepel Pannonia and Danuvia marques.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


BZ
58' Panther M75
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584875
02/10/15 3:01 pm
02/10/15 3:01 pm
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
kyrbz Offline
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kyrbz  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
Some period European ads -

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
If the White motorcycle on craigslist was truly a 57' it would have looked more like this one, but as I mentioned, White began importing them in the mid 60's so it's a mid 60's Pannonia.

Last edited by kyrbz; 02/10/15 3:14 pm.

BZ
58' Panther M75
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584887
02/10/15 4:15 pm
02/10/15 4:15 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 110
Northern California
2
2ndchildhood Offline

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2ndchildhood  Offline

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2

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 110
Northern California
Hey you gotta love that DUNA sidecar with the Studebaker nose in the sales brochure.


-Tony

73 Norton Interstate
72 Triumph T100R
67 BSA 441
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: 2ndchildhood] #584899
02/10/15 5:05 pm
02/10/15 5:05 pm
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
kyrbz Offline
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kyrbz  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
Originally Posted by 2ndchildhood
Hey you gotta love that DUNA sidecar with the Studebaker nose in the sales brochure.


I think Blue Moon Cycles in GA. use to have a few Pannonia's w/ Duna sidecars for sale. I wouldn't be surprised if he snapped up the White on craigslist if the price was right. He's mostly into German and some eastern Euro motorcycles.

Last edited by kyrbz; 02/10/15 5:05 pm.

BZ
58' Panther M75
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584908
02/10/15 6:01 pm
02/10/15 6:01 pm
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,659
Pennsyltuckey
ricochetrider Offline

Moto Mojo
ricochetrider  Offline

Moto Mojo

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 10,659
Pennsyltuckey
It amazes me how many different manufacturers there were back when!
Seems "new" brands of bikes turn up fairly often.


"It is no measure of health, to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584924
02/10/15 6:54 pm
02/10/15 6:54 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,502
upstate ny
G
George Elston Offline
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G

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,502
upstate ny
Pretty cool. A 2 stroke B40?


57 Woodsman
64 Interceptor
58 Trailblazer
59 Constellation
64 500 Sport twin
61 Hornet

2001 W650
1966 W1
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584932
02/10/15 7:50 pm
02/10/15 7:50 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,649
Douglasville (Atlanta) Georgia
DPO Offline OP
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DPO  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,649
Douglasville (Atlanta) Georgia
He wants $2000 for it, may be negotiable....Is that a good price?


If you love it, let it go. If it comes back, you've highsided!"

1971 Triumph T120
2005 Triumph "America"
1976 BMW R90/6
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584943
02/10/15 8:56 pm
02/10/15 8:56 pm
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
kyrbz Offline
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kyrbz  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
In Germany and eastern Europe you can generally find nicely restored 60's Pannonia's for around $2500-3500.00. You can find unrestored ones very cheap. If that White was in Europe it would probably be in the $500.00-900.00 range Get back into the 50's and earlier and they bring much more money. Of course Csepel's are a fairly common vintage motorcycle in Germany and eastern Europe. In the US they're much more scarce. Probably not too many of them imported here. I personally like having bikes that are uncommon so if I could get the White for under $2000.00 it would be very tempting. If you were to restore it, you might not make much or any money on it, but you'd have a bike few people have heard of or seen. An unrestored 50's Danuvia located in TX just sold on eBay for I believe $3800.00. As I mentioned, It's quite easy getting parts for them, so it would be a fairly easy restoration. Here's a couple pics of what a restored one looks like -

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

He doesn't have them now but in 2009 Blue Moon Cycles in GA was selling Pannonia's with Duna sidecars for $7500.00


Last edited by kyrbz; 02/10/15 9:10 pm.

BZ
58' Panther M75
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #584979
02/11/15 5:28 am
02/11/15 5:28 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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G

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
The east European and the West German two-strokes were on the market here,
but - although these bikes did exactly what they had to do - they were allways considered poor mans bikes.

Real motorcycle riders had a brittish bike or a Harley,
rich motorcycle riders had a BMW,
poor men owned a DKW, a Puch or a NSU.
Only the very poor could afford a Jawa, a CZ or a Pannonia.

The result was the real riders were good in roadside repairs
while the BMW riders, the poor ones and the very poor ones always returned home without a problem.


Ger B

Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: Ger B] #585070
02/11/15 5:12 pm
02/11/15 5:12 pm
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,225
Netherlands
Peter R Offline

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Peter R  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,225
Netherlands
Originally Posted by Ger B

Only the very poor could afford a Jawa, a CZ or a Pannonia.


That's exactly what these bikes represented in their days, cheap transport for those who could not afford anything better.
Today these bikes do have some following over here, but generally speaking, very few people are truly interested in these machines, and the surviving examples can be picked up for beer money, and not often considered worth restoring.




Peter.
1974 Commando 850
1972 Trident T150T
1961 Goldie DBD34
1969 Benelli 250 sport special
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #585119
02/11/15 9:21 pm
02/11/15 9:21 pm
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
kyrbz Offline
BritBike Forum member
kyrbz  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
In defense of eastern Euro bikes, At one time CZ completely dominated the international motocross scene, and Jawa was the worlds largest manufacturer of motorcycles. Jawa's were also known for their reliability. In fact adventurist Velorex owners routinely drive across the African continent in Jawa powered Velorex cars.

OK, I have a soft spot for oddball eastern Euro bikes (and cars). My first real motorcycle as a kid in the 70's was a CZ dirt bike. My Csepel Danuvia may be slow and clunky, but at motorcycle shows it generally attracts more attention than any other bike. I'm currently restoring a 62' Cezeta Scooter (sometimes referred to as the ugliest scooter ever made) and some day I'd love to add a Velorex or a Tatra to my car collection. I tend not discriminate where things come from, if they're old, odd, and arcane, they're welcome in my collection.


BZ
58' Panther M75
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #585150
02/12/15 4:29 am
02/12/15 4:29 am
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,225
Netherlands
Peter R Offline

BritBike Forum member
Peter R  Offline

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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,225
Netherlands
Kyrbz, it was by no means my intention to upset or critisize you, for the fact that you are showing interest in east european machinery.
It is perfectly ok to preseve this part of history imo.

It is true that Jawa and MZ produced competitive racers, and CZ dominated motorcross for several years, but these machines were lightyears apart from the bread-and-butter bikes that the average east European working comrade could buy, and these guys wanted to have nothing to do with these brandnames anymore after the iron curtain fell.

I still clearly remember my trip to Hungary on my Commando in the 1970's , and the wide eyed looks from the local people over there. If they had a choice between their Jawa or the Commando, I am shure what the outcome would have been.





Peter.
1974 Commando 850
1972 Trident T150T
1961 Goldie DBD34
1969 Benelli 250 sport special
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #585153
02/12/15 5:07 am
02/12/15 5:07 am
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
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Ger B  Offline
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G

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
Kyrbz,

What I wrote was: The bikes did what they had to do.
It is no critisism from me to anybody that they were allways considered poor mans bikes, but a fact of life in this country in that era.

Friends again? :bigt



Ger B

Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #585188
02/12/15 11:09 am
02/12/15 11:09 am
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
kyrbz Offline
BritBike Forum member
kyrbz  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 76
Midwest, United States
No offense was taken by either comment. :bigt

I guess if I was trying to make a point, it would be that just as they filled a need for inexpensive transportation in their time, today they can be good inexpensive bikes for somebody who wants a vintage bike without having spending the big bucks that the better known western marques bring.

Incidentally, because of their abundance and cheap price in Europe, it seems like in recent years more dealers in the US have been importing them to fill the need for a less expensive vintage bike. I think there's a booming industry in Hungary of restoring Csepel's for export not unlike the many Chinese and Russian Ural's that are being imported into the US for the collector market.

[Linked Image]
Csepel enthusiast certainly aren't above making jokes about them.





Last edited by kyrbz; 02/12/15 11:23 am.

BZ
58' Panther M75
http://bzisettas.blogspot.com/
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: kyrbz] #585209
02/12/15 1:20 pm
02/12/15 1:20 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,105
Kansas City, USA
J in KC Offline
BritBike Forum member
J in KC  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,105
Kansas City, USA
I was beginning to worry that there was going to be no mention of Neckarsulm Strickmaschinen Union.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Or Motorrad Zschopau

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

the ultimate proletarian motorcycle!


Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #585216
02/12/15 2:15 pm
02/12/15 2:15 pm
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
G
Ger B Offline
BritBike Forum member
Ger B  Offline
BritBike Forum member
G

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 5,963
NL
I like your snail, Kyrbz. laughing

Strickmaschine = Sewing machine

Zschopau I did not know. The engine looks like DKW.
The NSU open drawing shows the one of a kind OHcamshaft drive.


Ger B

Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #656458
06/11/16 3:14 pm
06/11/16 3:14 pm
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1
France, Corse
P
ptomi Offline
New poster
ptomi  Offline
New poster
P

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1
France, Corse
Hi
finally what's happened with this bike, have you bought it?

Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #656464
06/11/16 4:18 pm
06/11/16 4:18 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,903
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Online content
BritBike Forum member
Irish Swede  Online Content
BritBike Forum member
I

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,903
Elburn, Ill. USA
Not a BSA but still a "Shooting Star?"

Where did they get THAT name, I wonder?

Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: Ger B] #656472
06/11/16 5:11 pm
06/11/16 5:11 pm
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,630
scotland
triton thrasher Online content
BritBike Forum member
triton thrasher  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,630
scotland
Originally Posted by Ger B
I like your snail, Kyrbz. laughing

Strickmaschine = Sewing machine

Zschopau I did not know. The engine looks like DKW.
The NSU open drawing shows the one of a kind OHcamshaft drive.


Motorrad Zschopau was the part of DKW that stayed in East Germany.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: 1957 "White" motorcycle, Craigslist.... [Re: DPO] #656764
06/13/16 6:51 pm
06/13/16 6:51 pm
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,267
North Georgia, USA
RF Whatley Offline
BritBike Forum member
RF Whatley  Offline
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,267
North Georgia, USA
Blue Moon has been selling bikes like this for a decade or more. It wouldn't surprise me if the bike was bought there, and moved to the mountains of north Georgia as a "weekend rider". When it stopped running (ethanol fuel left in the carb all winter) no one could be found to work on it, and it was put up for sale.

[Linked Image]

Blue Moon's vintage sales floor is a balcony above their regular sales floor. Average Joe comes into look at new BMW's, hears the price, and collapses. Then during the oxygen mask treatment, they take him up to the balcony to recover.

Lots of these type vintage things get sold with the reasoning, "I just saved myself $20,000 !!"

:bigt


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA

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