BritBike Forum logo
BritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorBritBike SponsorThe Bonneville ShopBritBike Sponsor
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
ShoutChat Box
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments.
Buy BritBike staff a coffee
Buy BritBike's staff a coffeeStill here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts..
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Member Spotlight
expresidente
expresidente
Germany North
Posts: 496
Joined: January 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Argos parts, Mr. Bean, rudi, Derek, Psychorider
10862 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
franko 169
DavidP 72
reverb 62
NickL 53
Popular Topics(Views)
1,017,454 mail-order LSR
a word from..
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics67,800
Posts680,396
Members10,862
Most Online14,755
May 5th, 2019
Who's Online Now
66 registered members (998John), 389 guests, and 864 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #577717 12/23/14 10:51 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104

Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK
British motorcycles on e-Bay North America
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: Transgarp] #577737 12/23/14 1:03 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
kevin roberts Online Confused OP
DOPE
OP Online Confused
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
i'm fascinated.

trans, why the switch from the 14mm to the 10mm plug in the old hole?

who did the porting?


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #577876 12/24/14 9:54 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by kevin
i'm fascinated.

trans, why the switch from the 14mm to the 10mm plug in the old hole?


To install the same type of spark plug as on the two new holes, to decrease the hot points around the spark plug and especially to avoid too much weakening the medium of the head by drill two large hole of 14 mm

Originally Posted by kevin
i'm fascinated.
who did the porting?
Me wink

Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #577895 12/24/14 12:12 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
kevin roberts Online Confused OP
DOPE
OP Online Confused
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
trans, the NGK D8EA plugs i'm using need a brass spacer in order to stay out of the chamber:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

i'm really interested in the pazon ignition you're using, as i have a new project in the works. they provided much more information about the modification than i had available when i did mine some 30 years ago. this was all i had to work with at the time:

[Linked Image]


trans, how do you like the pazon system? have you found any faults with it?


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #577953 12/24/14 8:12 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
kevin roberts Online Confused OP
DOPE
OP Online Confused
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
yes.

very impressive. i've obviously got some testing to do. even setting the timing omn my machine at the (way advanced) 38 BTDC still didn't put peak pressures on the uphill side of TDC, though, because the motor wouldn't detonate after the change.

the pazon literature for the system that transgap uses recommends 32 degrees BTDC for total advance at 4000 rpm or so. clearly there's some room for fiddling with all this.

wonder how much horsepower i've been leaving on the table all this time.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578216 12/27/14 9:12 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Pinking over 28 with Morgo 750 cc 9.5:1 cr & Quebec cheap 91 octane fuel

I prefer the spark plug NGK CR8EIX Iridium which resists the fooled better that spark-plug NGK CR8EA standard

I use 8 oz Torco by tank for eliminate residual pinking

Spark plug color of my Triumph

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Transgarp; 12/27/14 9:16 am.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: Transgarp] #578223 12/27/14 10:29 am
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
kevin roberts Online Confused OP
DOPE
OP Online Confused
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
interesting that you still have pinking over 28 BTDC. that is in line with what people have told me to expect from a dual plug conversion in this thread.

your plugs show the pretty orange of the MTBE in the Torco octane booster.

i have had no fouling problems at all since i abandoned Champion plugs for NGK.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578347 12/28/14 10:38 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
My Triumph started to undergo the problem of knocking since the arrival of the unleaded gas in Quebec at the beginning of the years 1980
Formerly I ride to 38 full-advance without any problem with the gasoline with lead

I say well that it is knocking, because pinking does not disappears when one put ignition retard; the knocking yes

I speak about it at greater length on my Web server

English version
http://transgarp.dyndns.org/Motorcycle/Knock-Pink-en.html

French version
http://transgarp.dyndns.org/Motorcycle/Knock-Pink-fr.html

Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: Transgarp] #578367 12/28/14 12:02 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
kevin roberts Online Confused OP
DOPE
OP Online Confused
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
on my T120, hard detonation was clearly audible-- sharp metallic knocks, identical to hammer blows on metal.

i have no experience with any sounds from pre-ignition, and no evidence that it occurs.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578385 12/28/14 1:32 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
J
John Healy Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
Quote
Spark plug color of my Triumph


These observations are from looking at your picture. It is not the same as actually looking at the plug.

Look at the threads. They looked heated at least half way up, where I would expect to see only two or three threads colored from heat.

What puzzles me is this is a fairly cold plug with most of the heat going directly into the body of the plug above the point where your plug' threads display heating. Just how hot does this engine run? I suspect retarded to 28 it must be running pretty hot. Of course these observations are subject to what I can see in your picture.

Also the orange deposit masks the plug not allowing one to check it for temperature of fuel mixture.

A side note: Here in New England we get very few real warm days, but I have had the chance of riding a long stroke 750 (aka Morgo etc.) belonging to Bill Getty in Southern California in the Summer (100F) two up - me at 230 and the bride at 150ish from sea level in Santa Barbara through San Marcos Pass and up and around Figueroa Mountain on several occasions. It was a TR6, 5 speed, running on Californian pump gasoline, one of Bill's Keihen carburetors that was on test and it had a 750 long rod cylinder with 9:1 pistons. It neither missed a beat or pinged unless I really, really lugged it which I did on a couple of single track switch backs that seemed to gain 30 feet in elevation in 60 feet of asphalt. ANd having the carb on test Bill suggested that I abuse it a bit to see what I thought of the new carburetor.

Last edited by John Healy; 12/28/14 1:48 pm. Reason: side note

Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: John Healy] #578390 12/28/14 2:21 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by John Healy
I suspect retarded to 28 it must be running pretty hot. Of course these observations are subject to what I can see in your picture.


Impossible to ride my bike to more 30 without increasing the detonation severly and decreasing the engine output with low rpm
Before 1982 I ride to 38 full-advance without problem and my spark-plug were held brown clearly with the super lead gasoline
Since 1982 I did not have the choice to move back with 28 not to scraping the engine by the detonation

About the air/essence mixture I use 2 AMAL 930 with #190 main jet
In 1974 I used #220 main jet, but too rich with the unleaded gas

The unleaded gasoline of Quebec is too low in octane number compared with the USA wink

Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: NickL] #578496 12/29/14 12:41 am
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
kevin roberts Online Confused OP
DOPE
OP Online Confused
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
Originally Posted by John Healy
Just how hot does this engine run? I suspect retarded to 28 it must be running pretty hot. Of course these observations are subject to what I can see in your picture.


john, i recognize that race conditions aren't road conditions, but you mentioned earlier that you ran this sort of head successfully at 25 BTDC. that's even more retarded than transgarp (nothing personal), and in a normal engine ought to make it run hotter. but as i understand it, if the engine runs best at a certain timing, then that's where most of the heat is being used to move the piston, and the engine shouldn't run hotter at that setting even if the figure is nominally way retarded.

i'm assuming that advancing to just short of detonation will make peak horsepower.

is that what you mean? why would you expect 28 BTDC to run hotter, if that's where the most energy is being used up in piston movement and isn't just being absorbed by the motor?

Last edited by kevin; 12/29/14 11:57 am.

every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578557 12/29/14 1:14 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
J
John Healy Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
Quote
john, i recognize that race conditions aren't road conditions, but you mentioned earlier that you ran this sort of head successfully at 25 BTDC. that's even more retarded than transgarp (nothing personal),


From reading his posts he has given no indication that he has the head twin plugged.

Even reading his latest post:
Quote
Impossible to ride my bike to more 30 without increasing the detonation severly and decreasing the engine output with low rpm Before 1982 I ride to 38 full-advance without problem and my spark-plug (ed. bold) were held brown clearly with the super lead gasoline Since 1982 I did not have the choice to move back with 28 not to scraping the engine by the detonation


Even reading this I get the idea that the engine is single plugged. Triumph did extensive tests on the T140 using low octane unleaded fuel at MIRA as this is the fuel they had to certify for DOT emissions testing. They found that the engine was least prone to detonation (single plug) at a very narrow timing window of 37.

The Triumph combustion chamber, especially on the larger bore of the 750, has a rather slow flame propagation. Putting in two plugs effectively cuts the time it takes for the flame front to travel in half. Thus the need to change the timing to something in the 25 to 30 degree range.

Califonia gasoline is nothing to write home about, but from Petro Canada's web site it doesn't seem that Canadian gasoline is out of line with the US:
Quote
The octane number written on the gas pump is Anti-Knock Index (AKI). Its an average of two octane ratings using the same test equipment but using different operating conditions. The methods produce a Research Octane number (RON) and a Motor Octane Number (MON). Both were once considered important and thats why AKI is an average of the two. With modern engines and fuels systems, recent studies have shown that RON is more important than MON. So in these cars, the higher the RON the better these cars perform. For an AKI rating of 91 the lower the MON the higher the RON. This difference is called sensitivity. All gasoline components have different sensitivity. Most hydrocarbon components have low sensitivity. Ethanol has high sensitivity and so, modern performance cars benefit from gasolines with ethanol. Why does ethanol have higher sensitivity? One reason is related to the cooler combustion that results from ethanol combustion. Higher knock tendency is directly related to higher combustion temperature.
Here is a comparison of two fuels with different octane with and without ethanol.

91 Grade - no ethanol
RON 97.2
MON 85.6
Ultra 94 - with ethanol
RON 101.5
MON 88



Even their AKI research RON number, the one referred to in Triumph owner's manuals, is 97 RON.


Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: John Healy] #578592 12/29/14 4:36 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Look at John.
Yes one or two spark-plug little to make a difference, but I installed one 2nd spark-plug towards 2002 which is more than 20 years after having known my first troubles of detonation with the unleaded gas.
I have ride of 1982 to 2002 approximately with only one spark-plug by cylinder, the super gasoline unleaded, 20 full-advance and the detonation
Since 2002 that I ride twin plug by cylinder by Pazon and 28 with the threshold of the detonation
Since 2014 I eliminated any detonation with Torco and I could surely adjust with 32 or more, but I prefer to leave with 28 if ever I would miss it of Torco.

Come to live in Quebec with the gasoline [***] which is sold and you will include/understand wink

I have friends who noticed a large difference when they go to the USA
They have the impression to have more power with the engine of their vintage British motorcycle
There is surely a difference in manufacture of the gasoline sold in Quebec and the USA
Because formerly there was of it no problem


About ethanol, I am really not interested in ride with
It is manufactured based on water and many parts of the engine are sensitive there, especially AMAL carb & fuel tank

Last edited by Transgarp; 12/29/14 4:43 pm.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578608 12/29/14 6:19 pm
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
kevin roberts Online Confused OP
DOPE
OP Online Confused
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
well, i obviously have some testing to do. it seems clear to me that i'm missing something with the ignition timing in my machine. if the optimum timing for a typical two-plug head is in the vicinity of 25-28 BTDC, then i shouldn't be able to run 38 without peak cylinder pressures occurring way early. if i were running god's own octane gasoline, then maybe it still wouldn't detonate, but horsepower should be down compared to the retarded figure.

i'm wondering whether having the two plug leads connected to the same cylinder negated the effectiveness of the two-plug conversion. doesn't seem so, because i haven't had detonation issues since then, although i continue to run the highest octane fuels i can find.

i've been using the 110 octane leaded racing fuel available from one of the gas stations near where i live. i'm guessing that has had an effect.


every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578617 12/29/14 7:06 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
J
John Healy Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
Quote
Since 2002 that I ride twin plug by cylinder by Pazon and 28 with the threshold of the detonation


Do you have the Smart-Fire Triumph/Bsa/Norton Unit Twin 180 Crank TWINPLUG 12 Volt system or the standard Smart-Fire - Sure-Fire etc, running as a twin plug system. It makes a difference because the advance curve is different and not appropriate.

As I said above 25 to 30 full advance timing using a specific twin plug system designed for a twin plugged engine would be appropriate.

Quote
I have ride of 1982 to 2002 approximately with only one spark-plug by cylinder, the super gasoline unleaded, 20 full-advance and the detonation


I am not surprised you had detonation as 20 full advance timing (the retarded timing would be near TDC) with a single plug Triumph head would certainly be problematic. The timing itself would have caused your detonation no matter what the octane was. You were lucky you didn't hole a piston from pre-ignition.

And a bit of nit picking but the 91 Grade number on the pump is NOT an octane measurement. It is what is called the Anti-Knock-Index. As shown in the Petro chart above 91 grade (AKI) has a research octane number of 97 and a motor octane number of 85.

Coming to the US and having having more power because the fuel has more octane confuses me. Higher octane fuel does not contain any more energy than lower octane fuel. The only thing a higher octane rating does is to slow down the rate of combustion. Yes, the engine will not detonate because high compression pistons or high cylinder pressures caused by lugging or heavy load. What is called drive ability (no pinging, etc.) will be better, but it will not have any more power.


Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: John Healy] #578627 12/29/14 8:28 pm
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 335
David Dunfey Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 335
Kevin,

I did not realize that you were using such high octane. As John intimates, it may be the reason the combustion process is so slow. It is my understanding that you will produce the highest power using the lowest octane fuel that works with your compression ratio. Going lower or higher in octane will reduce the power. Unfortunately, the compression ratio is like the "pump number", it often does not relate to what you want to know. The advertised compression ratio of the piston, say 9:1, is a theoretical number based on 180 degrees of compression. Your "effective" or "dynamic" compression ratio is based on where the intake valve closes, which is dependent upon you cam and valve timing. Often, this means that your dynamic compression ratio is really 8:1. On top of this, you have the issue mentioned earlier that the advertised CR assumes that the spark theoretically occurs at TDC and as we know, it is happening much earlier.

I am not sure what you are shooting for, but if you are looking for power, you need to optimize all these compromises that you are required to make. If you know what octane is readily supplied as premium, you could adjust your CR to make the most power on premium and this would most likely mean adjusting your timing to suit. Unfortunately, to do this, you have to record numerous measurements on your engine.

David

Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: David Dunfey] #578634 12/29/14 9:17 pm
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,595
Hillbilly bike Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Online Content
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,595
Saying that higher octane gas burns slower is not always true. And how higher octane lessens detonation is a lot more that overall slower combustion.


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,2001 Sportster....On a bike you can out run the demons..
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578635 12/29/14 9:19 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
John, you seems to me skeptic and to think that I did not test all the possible solutions.
A given moment I bought a Honda XL600R 1986 new to rest problems of Triumph with the unleaded and to ride without gasoline concern to have fun in the sand pit
Before buying the Honda, I had good results on Triumph with 38 with one mix 50/50 of super gasoline unleaded 91 and the gas of octane 110 plane
I have this Pazon since 2006

Since the installation of the head twin-plug in 2002, I had the same problems of detonation with the Boyer Micro Digital connect on two twin coil 6V in series
When you speaks to give the full-advance to 38, this implies that you do not believe in my problem of knocking and thinks you seems to think pinging which is not the case
I have failed to tear off me the leg by starting the bike with the kick when I gave the full-advance of origin to 38 towards 2008 and the engine was very unstable with the idle and wanted to spit the pistons because of the detonation if I gave too throttle to low mode
Normally with pistons Morgo 9.5:1 I must ride with AKI of 94 at least to ride 38 full-advance and only Petro-Can with ethanol allows it
But I am against the fact of ride with water in the engine of Triumph some is the percentage kind 5%
The majority of people of Quebec lowers compression with 8.5:1 to ride to 38 without problem, but with a loss of power that I to allow me little.
Then I do not have the choice to juggle with threshold of the detonation to keep a maximum of performance without being obliged to ride with of VP-Racing.

My Web site reads again well on the difference between pinking and knocking for better seizing on the content of my problem.
Because for the moment Torco is the most rational solution if I want to roll on the forest roads to the North of Quebec or only the ordinary gasoline unleaded is available

Gasoline of the USA really unleaded?

Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578637 12/29/14 9:32 pm
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
David

I have camshaft of origin with normal overlap for Triumph

I already used a set of camshaft of competition to strong overlap and dynamic compression decreases much in proportion of overlap and I did not have a problem of detonation when I tested them with unleaded super
But I do not like this kind of camshaft with strong overlap considering the reduction in power to low mode that that causes which is useful in the trails and forest roads of Quebec in the technical places where one must ride at low speed while asking the engine much

Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578645 12/29/14 11:18 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
J
John Healy Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
TG I do believe you have a problem and that you bike has suffered from detonation. No skeptic here!! I am not questioning that what you are hearing isn't detonation. I am just trying to point out to you some of the things I think you are over looking.

Here are some observations. I apologize if I am repeating myself:
If you are going to dual plug using a Boyer, Pazon or any EI with an advance curve engineered to suit a single plug application used on the street you are setting your self up for problems. The advance engineered for a dual plug installation will have a much shorter advance curve. The standard EI for A Triumph would retard the spark from 38 to approx. 14. The same EI would retard the the spark from 20 BTDC to 4 ATDC. An EI engineered for a dual plug on a Triumph would retard the spark from 25 - 30 to 10 to 14 BTDC.

The hemi design of the Triumph cylinder head, with the top of the piston sticking right up into the combustion chamber, has a very slow combustion burn. You want the combustion to be at the end of its cycle at around 12-15 ATDC. So for this to happen with a Triumph you need time for full combustion to take place so that is finished burning at the appropriate time

You can use a standard EI if your racing because the engine will hardly ever be below 3,500 rpm and the EI will always be fully advanced. This is not the case in the street, especially if you are fond of cruising and have installed tall gearing. Remember if you cruise, or accelerate under 3,000 rpm the timing isn't at 20 any more. It could be as low as 10 or lower.

Running an engine in a too retarded condition

Running 20 full advance on a single plug Triumph with either points or an EI will put the full retard timing at near TDC. There is no way this will work no matter how high the fuel octane is. The flame speed of this engine will not support this.

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70385


Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578646 12/29/14 11:21 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
J
John Healy Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
J
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 10,250
Quote
But I do not like this kind of camshaft with strong overlap considering the reduction in power to low mode that that causes which is useful in the trails and forest roads of Quebec in the technical places where one must ride at low speed while asking the engine much


That is why they make 16 - 17 - 18 tooth sprockets.


Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: David Dunfey] #578648 12/30/14 12:10 am
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
kevin roberts Online Confused OP
DOPE
OP Online Confused
DOPE
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,744
Originally Posted by David Dunfey
Kevin,

I did not realize that you were using such high octane. As John intimates, it may be the reason the combustion process is so slow. It is my understanding that you will produce the highest power using the lowest octane fuel that works with your compression ratio. Going lower or higher in octane will reduce the power.


i haven't always had access to gasoline that good. most of the time it's been with 91 or so unleaded premium, sometimes with lead substitutes added.

but i don't think i understand what you're saying about octane effects, and "getting the most power by using the lowest octane that will work with your compression ratio." are you tuning by varying octane number? that's a new idea for me. i've always tried to use fuel with an octane number high enough to eliminate it as a variable, and then do the actual tuning by changing the other stuff.

Originally Posted by David Dunfey

I am not sure what you are shooting for, but if you are looking for power, you need to optimize all these compromises that you are required to make.


i have a hot street bike that i want to make run as sharply as i can, physically and chemically, and still be useable at legal speeds, and hopefully not blow up. it's not a competition machine, just a long-term project. but i'm looking for ways to capture and analyze data on it, so lots of measurements are where my head is. i do have a competition machine in the works, though, so it all has a pretty sharp focus, in the end.

what i'm shooting for is understanding, really, and i'm most interested in understanding the british machines, because their level of technology and tuning is so fundamental.

Last edited by kevin; 12/30/14 12:31 am.

every day you do not take a chance is a day of your life that you will never get back.
Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578658 12/30/14 1:44 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
John

I ride my Triumph from 1974 to 1982 without problem, I even used pistons of 11.0:1 CR without hearing the least sound of knocking or pinking
I was seldom in bottoms of 100 Mph at the time considering which I was insane furious with my Triumph
My Triumph of origin with breaker-point adjusted at 38, Lucas coil, Champion N3G spark-plug and front sprocket of 19 teeth
There was only gasoline with lead in Quebec before 1982, all went marvelously well and the engine turned easily to 7000 rpm

The nightmare started in 1982 with the arrival of the unleaded
Considering I had installed pistons 11.0:1 about 1981 and kept them with the arrival of the unleaded of 1982, I did not manage any more to hill climb the road without the engine wanting to be demolished by the knocking and the pinging
Then not the choice to install pistons of 9.0:1 like first test for eliminate the detonation.
But it was not sufficient, then about 1984 I moved back with 28 full-advance to cut a little more the detonation.
But it was not sufficient and taken discouragement I bought the Honda in 1986 considering which the only method to remove the detonation completely was one mix 50/50 with gasoline of plane

In 1992, I had the idea to again fight the problem of detonation by installing an Boyer with 2 coil 6V Lucas in series without large apparent change
When I installed modified the cylinder head of the engine for dual plug by cylinder towards 2002, I felt a small difference but not sufficient.
In 2006 I try the blow for Pazon Smart-Fire PD2TP adjusted at 28 without too much difference in behavior compared with Boyer Micro-Digital
In 2014, I found MY solution which is not can-to be not holds it but which is enough for me without being obliged to ride to the VP Racing or to use pistons 8.5:1
Simply of Torco Accelerator

About the full-advance, with each modification since 30 years I had tested between 20 and 38 and 25-28 are the ideal place not not to handicap the engine too much.

Re: where do the coil wires go on dual plug heads? [Re: kevin roberts] #578659 12/30/14 1:54 am
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Transgarp Offline
BritBike Forum member
Offline
BritBike Forum member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 104
Video of my Triumph in knocking mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24sa5PxAGCQ

towards 4m30s on this video and while climbing the small hill thereafter 14m50s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KEncRqPSrU


On this video I always ride to the threshold of the detonation with regular gas unleaded of AKI 85 at a cruising speed of 110-120 Km/h approximately at 1h20m00s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc-96mIOfKM


I did not use Torco before 2014 wink

Last edited by Transgarp; 12/30/14 2:16 am.
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Allan Gill 

Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3