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Ianbuck
Ianbuck
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Sloper
#565133 09/27/14 5:04 am
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This is my first post, so be gentle! I've just bought a 1930 Sloper that needs a bit of work to get it going. It hasn't run since 1978 and I intend to have a good look at the engine to make sure that all is clear before attempting to start. There is almost nothing around in the way of shop manuals etc. (unless you know better) but I've been working on bikes for a long time and most of what I see is fairly straightforward. I've just hit a snag with the clutch hub, though. None of my extractors quite fits, so does anybody know if there is an extractor around that will do the job? If I knew the exact size and thread I could make one. Any help or advice much appreciated.

Thanks,

Frank

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Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565147 09/27/14 8:26 am
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Welcome to the forum Frank... I'm no expert on the sloper, so I'm making an assumption that the single spring clutch is similar to the one on my 1940 M20. If so, the internal thread (for puller) is 1" x 24 TPI.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

HTH.. Ian aka Frank


Just a few Beezers..

Re: Sloper
Ian C #565187 09/27/14 1:36 pm
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Can't believe this Ian (aka Frank!), you are located in Rotherham and so am I! I think that you are right; in so far as I can measure it, it looks like I need a one inch by 24 tpi internal puller. A matter now of seeing if my lathe is capable of screwcutting this, which I think it is. Many thanks!

Frank

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565527 09/29/14 9:03 pm
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Frank - pictures of the bike please! I would love to make a go at a Sloper or a BSA V-Twin. Not that many over here Stateside.

Regards,

Gumby.

Re: Sloper
Semper Gumby #565545 09/29/14 10:24 pm
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I'll second that, Gumby!!!

Re: Sloper
Rickman #565576 09/30/14 2:22 am
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Guys, I'll post one or two pics over the next couple of days when I have figured out how to do it! I was born and brought up in the steam age, and I have to think carefully before pressing buttons. Be patient!

I have to say that so far I'm impressed with the engineering on the bike. I've had other true vintage bikes in the past (definition of vintage by the UK's Vintage Club is before 1931) and they have been a little, shall we say, flimsy. (That should get the Sunbeam and AJS owners going)I managed to get the clutch hub off without damage, but not by starting with a puller. I'm hoping to get to the point of splitting the crankcases this week if time allows. First big expense coming up as I've sent off the carb and the magdyno for resurrection to the appropriate experts. I'm hoping that other stuff I can do myself, but so far all it seems to need is a thorough clean. I could be wrong!

The reasoning behind buying the bike was 1. It was on offer by an old gent in the VMCC for a price that I couldn't walk away from. 2. I want to have what may be my last go at the VMCC Banbury Run (Google it - biggest collection of old bikes together on one day on the planet, plus biggest collection of old guys.) I've done the Banbury several time in the past few years and it is quite a challenge to old metal and old bones. In 2012 I managed a silver award, and in 2015 it would be my ambition to try for gold standard. Probably a forlorn hope, but dream on!

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565578 09/30/14 2:39 am
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If you want Frank, I could pop round and give some tuition? I'm away on Business till Friday, but Im free next weekend. PM me with details if ok for you. :bigt


Just a few Beezers..

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565722 10/01/14 7:42 am
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Well here goes! Is this ok?

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565738 10/01/14 9:59 am
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Lovely!

Re: Sloper
Semper Gumby #565743 10/01/14 10:36 am
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Simply MARVELOUS!

Re: Sloper
Rickman #565774 10/01/14 12:59 pm
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Glad you like it, guys. If you want more pics, just ask. I'm an expert now. laughing

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565796 10/01/14 4:01 pm
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We like photos :bigt


http://wadeschields.tumblr.com/

Jack of all trades . Master of fun! wink

Beer is not the Answer.... Its the Question..... The answer is YES

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Re: Sloper
wadeschields #565806 10/01/14 5:44 pm
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Keep 'em coming! For each step of the way!

Not much technical out there about these marvelous machines...

Re: Sloper
Rickman #565902 10/02/14 12:52 pm
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[Linked Image]
Here's one to be going on with. I'm just on with lifting the cylinder and assessing what is inside! More pics and info to follow.

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565920 10/02/14 5:44 pm
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Well today I removed the valves and assessed them. They look pretty good, with no pitting. The springs are not so good in that one of them has taken a set from being compressed and is slightly shorter than the other. I'd like to fit new ones, but so far haven't been able to source any. I then lifted the barrel and found it to be in better condition than I'd hoped. There was very little difference in the measurement of the bore from top to bottom. The piston is +30 so the barrel has been re-bored several times. I guess that what happened was that it was last bored out just before it became a casualty of the age of the original owner and got locked away in the back of a heated garage. It stayed there from 1978 to 2012. I have also assessed the petrol tank (sorry chaps, gas tank if you like!) and found it to be in sound condition externally but with a really solid crust inside that looks like rust but is, I suspect, largely dried up fuel. I had a poke at it with a copper drift and what came off looked like coffee grounds and revealed solid bare metal underneath. I think that a touch of electrolysis is called for; I've used it before to get crud off the inside of tanks and it works well if you are patient and careful. Anyway, it can't do any harm. If that fails, then next is Coca-Cola. Lord knows what it does to your insides and teeth, but boy, does it shift crap out of tanks.

So far, then, and so good. I don't intend to restore the bike to a flash new-looking machine. It is in pretty original condition externally (and internally too) and I'd like to keep it that way. Bikes like this have a dignity about them that the patina brings, and I think it is a shame to destroy that and cover them in new paint and chrome. Each to his own taste, but mine is to make sure this is mechanically sound, safe to ride, externally clean, but no more.

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565925 10/02/14 6:16 pm
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Well, here's a shot taken this evening of the piston from my 1930 Sloper. It is posed upon the saddle, and perspective plays tricks! It looks as big as a bucket. It is in very good condition, no scuffing or scraping and the pin is a good push fit without undue pressure or undue looseness.

The second shot is of the crankcase minus barrel and piston. There is no movement in the big end, and ditto for the little end. Over the weekend I hope to find the time to lift the cases out of the frame and split them. I'm really keen to get a look at the oilways and make sure they are free. Last year I restored a Triumph 5TA that seemed in fair condition, but when I took out the plug in the crank, the inside was so packed full of crud that I had to use a drill to get it out. That was a lesson well learned, and I want to make really sure for this old lady. I'm very conscious that she is 84 years old, and is built to LAST. She will easily see me out, and it is my duty while custodian to do my best to make sure that she survives to be passed on to many future owners.

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #565976 10/03/14 2:36 am
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

OK, here's a couple more for those who like photos. First is, obviously, the tank; out on the bench waiting for me to set up the electrolysis operation. The paint is the "wrong" shade, but it's not in bad condition. When the inside is clean, I'll give it a careful rub over with T-Cut before polishing it. I'm not one of those who gets wound up if a colour is "wrong"; this shade is part of this bike's history and it looks ok to me. I once went to a talk at the VMCC many years ago by a man called John Hudson. He had been Service Manager at Norton for a long time before the factory closed, and a member of the audience asked him about the colours used back in the days of yore. He laughed for quite a while! He went on to explain that at the factory, the paint shade was mixed in batches, mostly on a daily basis. There was no colour coding in those days, no computer control. They gave the job to the apprentices, and they would mix the paint until they thought it looked right. He was pretty amused by the way that people take up a stance on colour, which was applied many years ago and in conditions totally unlike today.

The second shot is of the valve-cap/spark plug carrier, and shows the work of a true metal-butcher. Valve caps can be notoriously difficult to remove if they have been in situ for a long time, but there is never any need to resort to this, the wild use of a hammer and chisel. He had obviously never heard of the heat-spanner and a well-fitting wrench. Not much can resist that. Anyway, although it looks a mess, it is recoverable. I'll put it in the lathe and spin the old hexagon off flat. I'll then bore out a piece of the correct size new brass hex to suit, and then silver solder it in place. The gouges round the shoulder made by the chisel can be filled with metal and the whole thing carefully filed down to a good finish. It should be more or less undetectable when done, other than that the new hex will look too regular compared to the old one in the exhaust position.. Should I hit it a few times with a chisel just to weather it a little?? He'd also performed the same trick on the nut that holds the half-time pinion in place. Couldn't shift it with a spanner, you see, but then he didn't realise that because of the direction of rotation of the engine this is a left-hand thread. The nut is junk, and I'll have to make another. No big deal, but shouldn't have happened.

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #566004 10/03/14 9:33 am
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I have a photo for you.

My father in 1948. Wanganui New Zealand. (But OHV)

[Linked Image]

Last edited by johnm; 10/03/14 9:40 am.
Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #566013 10/03/14 10:52 am
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Quote
If that fails, then next is Coca-Cola. Lord knows what it does to your insides and teeth, but boy, does it shift crap out of tanks.


I use electrolysis and it works well but if not then the active ingredient in Coke is Phosphoric Acid, works well on rusty steel and has the added advantage over Hydrochloric in that it leaves a layer of Iron Phosphate on the steel which is anti rust.

Good project and miles different to the normal projects we get.

Re: Sloper
johnm #566046 10/03/14 3:31 pm
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Great pic, johnm. Thanks a lot.

Re: Sloper
kommando #566047 10/03/14 3:34 pm
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Thanks Kommando. A pal of mine with a PhD in Chemistry recommended Coke a long time ago. I asked him why, if it was so powerful, it just didn't leak out of your belly-button. He said it would, if you could retain it long enough! Never figured if he was kidding or not.

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #566174 10/04/14 4:43 pm
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[Linked Image]

For those who like pics, here's the valve timing marks on my Sloper. The half-time pinion is marked with a dot and a dash. The dot lines up with the dot on the exhaust pinion and the dash lines up with the dash on the inlet pinion. Simple as that. I keep finding little thoughtful and well-engineered touches as I work my way into the bike. I'm truly impressed by it; quality work and so, so solidly built. Check out that drive to the oil pump.

Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #566484 10/06/14 4:05 pm
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Help! Engine out of frame and all going well, until it comes to the oil pump. Not obvious how it comes out. Has anybody any ideas? The handbook has schematics of the pump but no clue as to how to shift it. The parts book is worse than useless. Thanks in advance!

Edit Wednesday 08/09/14. Panic over. Heat and a home-made puller worked. No problems inside the pump - very little wear and all oilways clear through big end. I can now get on with putting the engine back together safe in the knowledge that nothing nasty is lurking in the lubrication system.

Last edited by grandfathertyke; 10/08/14 1:12 am.
Re: Sloper
grandfathertyke #566688 10/08/14 7:09 am
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Originally Posted by grandfathertyke
Well today I removed the valves and assessed them. They look pretty good, with no pitting. The springs are not so good in that one of them has taken a set from being compressed and is slightly shorter than the other. I'd like to fit new ones, but so far haven't been able to source any. I then lifted the barrel and found it to be in better condition than I'd hoped. There was very little difference in the measurement of the bore from top to bottom. The piston is +30 so the barrel has been re-bored several times. I guess that what happened was that it was last bored out just before it became a casualty of the age of the original owner and got locked away in the back of a heated garage. It stayed there from 1978 to 2012. I have also assessed the petrol tank (sorry chaps, gas tank if you like!) and found it to be in sound condition externally but with a really solid crust inside that looks like rust but is, I suspect, largely dried up fuel. I had a poke at it with a copper drift and what came off looked like coffee grounds and revealed solid bare metal underneath. I think that a touch of electrolysis is called for; I've used it before to get crud off the inside of tanks and it works well if you are patient and careful. Anyway, it can't do any harm. If that fails, then next is Coca-Cola. Lord knows what it does to your insides and teeth, but boy, does it shift crap out of tanks.

So far, then, and so good. I don't intend to restore the bike to a flash new-looking machine. It is in pretty original condition externally (and internally too) and I'd like to keep it that way. Bikes like this have a dignity about them that the patina brings, and I think it is a shame to destroy that and cover them in new paint and chrome. Each to his own taste, but mine is to make sure this is mechanically sound, safe to ride, externally clean, but no more.


Your tank should be made from Terneplate which is coated with lead.
This is why really old tanks seldom rust out.
Using electrolysis will remove the protective lead coating so solvents like carb cleaner would be a better long term approach


Bike Beesa
Trevor
Re: Sloper
BSA_WM20 #566982 10/10/14 1:30 am
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Too late! The electrolysis is almost complete. It has softened and removed almost all the dried-on fuel and left clean metal behind. Would the answer now to be to complete the process and then treat with phosphoric acid to give the tank an anti-rust coating?

A problem we are experiencing in the UK with fuel systems is the effects of ethanol, which is being added in increasing quantities and is playing havoc with tanks and also with fuel lines. I've done a couple of restorations of 60s bikes in the last few years and have treated their tanks to electrolysis followed by a tank liner made by Frost Automotive. So far the liner has shown no sign of coming away from the tank, as some do, and has been impervious to attack by ethanol. I was thinking of going down that route with the Sloper tank. Any comments much appreciated!

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