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spitting oil from breather
#554759 07/25/14 6:10 am
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I have a 67 Triumph a guy wants me to check out. It blows a bit of oil out the breather hose that is under the engine. This engine crankcase breathes through the intake cam....I know these make a few drops but this one is a lot more than that compared to a similar bike I have been working on... During the few minutes we had it running there was a few tablespoons of oil from the breather hose.
...The engine doesn't smoke, starts on one kick,idles steady, has good power and doesn't leak oil except for the breather. The owner said it was rebuilt about 2000 miles ago and just started dripping a lot of oil out the breather a week ago.
No smoke on an overnight start up so it shouldn't be wet sumping...The oil return flow into the tank looks normal.
Putting my finger on the hose I feel pulses of air so I assume the timing disc is still spinning.
...I ran the engine with one valve inspection cover off and there doesn't seem to be any blow by....
... I never see stock bikes in my hillbilly shop, how is the breather hose supposed to be routed?


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
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Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #554762 07/25/14 6:43 am
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First thing I'd do is measure the amount of oil that drains out of the crankcase drain bung. Check the strainer for any sign of particles that might give a clue as to the state of the insides.
If it has a return line oil filter retro fitted, bypass it and test to see if it cures the problem.

Re: spitting oil from breather
Excalibur #554803 07/25/14 11:49 am
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No added on filter on the return..And it has a custom made oil tank by someone.... I made a T shaped tap for the tank inlet with a .130 restriction for the top end oil awhile ago.The job was to rewire the bike so when that's done I'll get it running again and check the sump drainage amount.


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #554805 07/25/14 11:57 am
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The breather usually runs down under the engine then up the seat tube where it splits. One tube goes to the oil tank and the other goes all the way to the end of the rear mudguard (fender). The mudguard tube goes round the battery and tucks underneath the mudguard so it can't be seen.

This tune set up tends to collect any emulsified oil in the bit under the engine so I have a joint here to drain it although it is usually ok. In your case it might fill up a bit.

If excalibur's tip doesn't work try cleaning out the oil pump return side. If the pump body is brass you can also reseat the ball valves by tapping them against the seats.

Dave

Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #554814 07/25/14 1:46 pm
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Point a short breather hose straight down at the road, as per original.

If you put toilet U-bends in it, guess what happens.

Last edited by triton thrasher; 07/25/14 1:46 pm.

Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: spitting oil from breather
triton thrasher #555375 07/28/14 4:26 pm
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I got the engine running properly and there it goes spitting oil out the breather hose that points straight down.
...Before when running the engine the oil pressure test gauge read 40-80 PSI with a steady needle.Now the gauge needle fluctuates nervously between 40-80. A substitute gauge does the same.
..Shut it down and drained exactly US eight ounces from the sump drain...Seems like twice the normal amount? There were many pieces of tiny flat flakes of soft crap in the drained oil..The oil suction pipe is in place.
Removed the timing cover and oil pump...Saw a few flakes of the same crap in there......Cleaned the pump and re seated the balls in the brass body.
Disconnected the oil lines and flushed out the oil tank someone fabricated...The tank is coated with white sealer that appears ok...
I'll put it back together and try it ....I see a lot of strange stuff on the beat up machines in my shop..It never fails to impress me how much abuse these engines can take...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555383 07/28/14 5:03 pm
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I think you want to identify what the "crap" is.


Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: spitting oil from breather
triton thrasher #555385 07/28/14 5:11 pm
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Originally Posted by triton thrasher
I think you want to identify what the "crap" is.

,
Yes, what Triton T. said, I don't think I've ever seen any type of oil tank with a sealer inside. I would be afraid of any brand of sealer letting loose inside an oil tank and can't imagine why it's even there.

Before the flakes became evident and if it wasn't the pump ball held off it's seat, then I was going to suggest maybe the inlet cam breather stand off pipe fell out or wasn't installed (you know, the one in the side of the shaft). I don't know if that would allow that much oil out the breather anyway. I'd go with the scavenge ball not seating, flakey crap...Mark

Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555391 07/28/14 5:34 pm
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly bike
The tank is coated with white sealer


Sounds to me like you need another oil tank.

Last edited by triton thrasher; 07/28/14 5:34 pm.

Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
Re: spitting oil from breather
MarksterTT #555395 07/28/14 5:49 pm
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Originally Posted by MarksterTT

Originally Posted by triton thrasher
I think you want to identify what the "crap" is.

,
Yes, what Triton T. said, I don't think I've ever seen any type of oil tank with a sealer inside. I would be afraid of any brand of sealer letting loose inside an oil tank and can't imagine why it's even there.

I sealed a repaired oil tank on my 53 Thunderbird 20 years ago and the when the bike was sold 7 years ago the the sealer was doing just fine....
But not on this bike.... What we have here is a weird shaped custom oil tank made to fit this full custom machine...Got a small mirror inside and can see the same small black flakes inside the tank...Not rust...I suspect some debris left over the constructing the steel tank. The sealer did not contain the debris in the tank.....
EDIT, I took a photo through oil tank filler cap. See all that debris ? I believe the bike builder thought the sealer would somehow contain the mess, it didn't..Push a cloth on a stick in the tank and it picks up the grit and bits of white sealer.And the tank fabricator did not include even a rudimentary screen on the feed outlet..
The flake-debris is inside the engine......say good bye to the engine eek

[Linked Image]


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555401 07/28/14 6:05 pm
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I would advise strongly against using any kind of sealer inside an oil tank. Just ask Kenny Dreer about that. I think it cost him more than one engine.

I cannot think of a situation where sealer would be needed or helpful in an oil tank that was built right, anyway.

Cheers,
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Black Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555408 07/28/14 6:33 pm
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No arguments there, looks pretty ugly!!

Re: spitting oil from breather
MarksterTT #555413 07/28/14 7:11 pm
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Originally Posted by MarksterTT
No arguments there, looks pretty ugly!!


Yup,I rebuilt this engine for the guy and it ran nicely...Fortunately for me the stupidity of the oil tank was by others...Most of the crud would have been stopped by a typical Triumph screen filter...something missing on this tank...
The bike owner asked me if the engine is still ok....


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555437 07/28/14 9:08 pm
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"And the tank fabricator did not include even a rudimentary screen on the feed outlet.."

Good grief! I'd say that makes the rest of the thread moot. I hope the damage is minimal.


Mark Z

'65(lower)/'66(upper, wheels, front end, controls)/'67(seat, exhaust, fuel tank, headlamp)/'70(frame) A65 Bitsa.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Mark Z #555495 07/29/14 6:37 am
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Many after market tanks currently for sale have no screen filters. So the first filter is the sludge trap and then the sump screen.
For less than 50 bucks there's a variety of inline screen filters for automotive dry sump engines and very small ones with 150 micron screens for turbo supercharger oil feed.
When I drained the sump there was some of the same crap you see inside the oil tank....So it got past the sludge trap and for sure embedded in the rod bearings...


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555543 07/29/14 12:09 pm
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After spraying in WD40 to cean the tank interior we can now see peeling sealer.....Poor preperation for sure and maybe the wrong sealer.
As mentioned, I sealed two Triumph oil tanks with Bill Hirst fuel tank sealer and no problems after many years...

[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?u...478295088a45721&zw&sz=w1312-h507[/img]


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555611 07/29/14 9:40 pm
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HB, I'd be surprised if it got past the sludge trap,more likely got to the crankcase when the OPRV opened. Jack

Re: spitting oil from breather
Jack Adams #555654 07/30/14 6:55 am
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Originally Posted by Jack Adams
HB, I'd be surprised if it got past the sludge trap,more likely got to the crankcase when the OPRV opened. Jack


Good point....but the valve dumps into the timing chest and there was very little crap to be found there. I flushed the specks of crap from the sump while the timing cover was off by spraying WD 40 through the casting holes.The OPRV is next on the list of stuff to clean....
...The spitting oil from the breather was likely a result of the 8 ounces of oil drained from the sump....The oil pump looked ok but I have another pump...And the oil pick up tube is in place and undamaged..

This custom bike has a "styled" oil tank holding about 2.5 quarts of oil. To remove the tank requires the rear wheel and fender come off first.A very difficult task on this Gothic freak bike. So I drilled through the top of the tank using a 3-1/2 inch hole to clean out the sealer...I'll seal the hole with a screwed on metal patch .The seat covers the tank..
A lot of hand scrapping and tank is spotless inside now...Will do a leak test...

[img]https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?u...478478efc72e209&zw&sz=w1312-h507[/img]


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555736 07/30/14 6:20 pm
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Some of the tank sealers dissolve in acetone. "Kreem" tank sealer is one that does.. For future ref

Re: spitting oil from breather
Excalibur #555745 07/30/14 7:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Excalibur
Some of the tank sealers dissolve in acetone. "Kreem" tank sealer is one that does.. For future ref



Very fancy ass expensive paint job ... never know if it's acetone resistant... grin

Looking into the hole I made in the oil tank top it was easy to see the return oil stand pipe is a few inches below the oil level ...That can't be doing any good and might be contributing to a high oil level in the sump so I reworked the pipe to the high side of the tank near the filler plug.

I do some rude stuff in my hillbilly shop of horrors but nothing like what was done on this machine by so called bike builders.


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
NickL #555919 07/31/14 5:09 pm
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Like the legend of the Phoenix the lump rises from the ashes....
No more oil blowing out the breather or any oil leaks or oil smoke. It runs fine has good pressure.
The poor engine survived (so far) major abuse from jackass wanna be bike builders...Hillbilly shop of horrors triumphs over stupidity..
The engine had about 15 minutes of running time when I took the video so it's warm but not fully warmed up. You can see the patch on the oil tank and the over the top styling...

Short video


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #555967 07/31/14 10:56 pm
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Over the top styling?!?! That's like saying the Pope is "a little bit Catholic"!! laughing

That bike would probably be better suited with some chrome-V-twin-S&S-belt-drive engine....

Not that I'm busting on the guy's bike mind you, just sayin'.... whistle

Funny how in some ways these old, air-cooled parallel twins are as delicate as a fine Swiss watch, and at other times as tough as a Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine.

Well done, HB!

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: spitting oil from breather
NickL #556067 08/01/14 12:21 pm
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That's a 200/70/16 radial tire on the back.... Yes, a V twin or some other bulky engine, the little 650 looks lost in a side view...It's like a tiger in a cage and needs to be free in a light compact machine..


79 T140D, 96 900M Ducati ,61 A10 .On a bike you can out run the demons..
“But I don't want to go among mad people,” Alice remarked. “Oh, you can't help that,” said the Cat: “we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Re: spitting oil from breather
triton thrasher #557794 08/11/14 8:13 am
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Originally Posted by triton thrasher
Point a short breather hose straight down at the road, as per original.

If you put toilet U-bends in it, guess what happens.


@triton trasher

straight down the road as per original?

When did the factory run the breather straight onto the road?
I´ve only seen the t-piece solution.
Do you run it straight out and if, how often do you have to top up the can?


*******************
Run `em...
*******************
1969 T120
Re: spitting oil from breather
Hillbilly bike #557799 08/11/14 8:45 am
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I may be wrong. All my Triumphs have been older Pre-unit. None of them had the breather led anywhere but down.

I don't see how it can work with a slug of oil in a u-bend in the hose. And I've met a few owners who've tried fancy plumbing to avoid the odd drip landing on the road and they had bother.



Amateur Loctite enthusiast.
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