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On eBay at the moment...

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According to the listing...
"This rare 1967 A65HA Hornet was shipped to the East Coast of the USA in 1967, from where it was returned to Smallheath unsold in 1968. It was re-exported new from the factory to the USA in 1970 (hence the "Y" on the engine number)"
laughing


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my 67 spitfire has Y on the top frame tube.

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You should have a "-Y" at the end of your engine's serial number, not on the frame serial number though.





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Originally Posted by Two Alpha
You should have a "-Y" at the end of your engine's serial number, not on the frame serial number though.



No its not on the frame number its on the top tube,and it is on the engine number A65SA-----Y

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Originally Posted by Two Alpha
On eBay at the moment...

According to the listing...
"This rare 1967 A65HA Hornet was shipped to the East Coast of the USA in 1967, from where it was returned to Smallheath unsold in 1968. It was re-exported new from the factory to the USA in 1970 (hence the "Y" on the engine number)"
laughing


An interesting comment. You would imagine that an owner with a BSAOC Dating Certificate could easily believe something like that. The difference here is that this bike is a Hornet and I doubt the details remotely resemble anything like that.

In this case the seller has probably filled in a few blanks himself, and come up with completely the wrong story.


Why, Y, Dash Y..



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Originally Posted by malla1962
Originally Posted by Two Alpha
You should have a "-Y" at the end of your engine's serial number, not on the frame serial number though.



No its not on the frame number its on the top tube,and it is on the engine number A65SA-----Y


[Linked Image]

I believe Malla has a 1967 MkIII so a Dash Y bike.


Why, Y, Dash Y..



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A65TA 8636-Y on eBay.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Looks like you would need foot surgery if you bought this! grin

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By the time the rider lifts his foot off of the peg to step on the brake, it's probably to late. CRASH!


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I started to read this thread last week when I was looking around. I don't think I made it past page 10 yet, but am planning to read through it to bring myself up to speed. I have a -Y bike, which is supposed to be a 1967 Hornet, matching frame and engine, I believe the -Y is on both, but not positive at the moment. It was purchased as a basket case that someone had tried to make into a chopper at some point. A work contact saw my restoration project on an old Kawasaki and thought I might be interested in this one. It has been on the back burner for a while as I don't have the funds for the plethora of parts that I will need. Is my bike really a 1967? What do I need to look for?

Here are a couple of pictures of what I have to work with. Wrong tank, lots of parts, engine turns.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


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Scott,
If the engine and frame numbers are A65HA, then it is a typical '67 Hornet. An east coast model Hornet by the looks of the oil tank. The -Y would only be on the engine. Nothing unusual about the Hornets as they were not caught up in the "Y" fiasco like the Lightnings, Thunderbolts, Royal Stars, and Spitfires. Forge ahead; get it running.

Supply me with the engine numbers and I'll add it to the Hornet registry data base I maintain.


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To say I have found this thread interesting is an understatement! Being able able to contribute would be a treat so here goes... Scanned back to the first of the year and didn't see this current eBay listing mentioned. Frame, tank, and engine cases only. Frames A65LA10854 numbers match but with the -Y on the case. Couple of oddities like the upsidedown "5" and the "dash" was held incorrectly then restamped over that make it look like a "+"...


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


The case photo also brings up an old question of mine.
The cast VIN plate has small BSA logos embossed along the entire surface. My first BSA back in the early '80s had the same and this is the first one I have seen since. Is this a sign of a factory restamped case to show authenticity? Perhaps a replacement case that was changed under warranty and the factory left blank to be stamped at the dealer to match the frame numbers?


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The crankcases with the raised boss and embossed "BSA"s for the serial number were introduced in 1969.
It looks like the original motor had a major blow-up and the cases were replaced. Actually, the entire motor was probably replaced, and the old engine number re-stamped on the new cases.

The model year 'A' being on the second line with the number is peculiar as well. The usual approaches were either to have the model / serial number on the same line, or the model (A65LA) on one line and the number on another.

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Originally Posted by Lannis
It was 44 years ago or so that people were stamping these numbers onto bikes.

Some of those guys were bound to have been young 25-year-old journeyman workers, who would now be a hale and hearty 69-year old retiree.

Has nobody looked up a person who was actually there at the time, who was actually punching numbers, and asked him simply "Wassup widdat?"

That would be an interesting "Quest" for someone! I'd do it myself except for that darn ocean ...

Lannis


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1970 "Y" Lightning on eBay. Seller thinks it is a 67.
http://www.eBay.com/itm/BSA-A65-LIGHTNING-/231220190026?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

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Another "Y" bike. I thought you guys may be interested

http://www.eBay.com/itm/BSA-A65-LIGHTNING-/231220190026?ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

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The eBay bike finally got the description right, with some assistance from this thread even...

It is a 1970 model and A65LA17009Y for the spreadsheet.

I think I an going to sell some of my bikes and get myself one of these 1970 Y bikes. I have always liked the 1970's and besides being a talking point it seems you can pick them up for a song.

The 10854 depicted a little earlier in this thread was an interesting one. I agree with the replacement engine verdict but was intrigued with the stamping.
Only BSA could make so many errors with a simple job, even used the earlier stamps on a set of later cases.
I think it would have to be a dealer that did the job, perhaps even stamping up and supplying the engine to an order.


Why, Y, Dash Y..



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And one more on eBay

http://www.eBay.com/itm/BSA-1967-BS...;item=251525467675&pt=US_motorcycles

Last edited by Roger Gulledge; 05/07/14 7:09 pm.

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Re: A65LA10854
After some negotiation I bought this frame, cases & tank. It was one of those foolish purchases made when I was suffering severe jet lag (12 timezones). The engine number stamp with +Y is curious enough but A65L being above A10854+Y is more curious. Surely this was a replacement engine (or likely replacement cases). The oil pressure switch boss is not tapped. This may have been common though I don't recall it being so.

It has been almost 40 years since I worked in the BSA/Triumph business but can recall a few things about replacement cases and engines. Cases were always unstamped & we dealers stamped the original numbers in place. More than once I got a number upside down or started stamping too far into the serial number boss and found myself running out of room. But if it was a '67 with a blown engine I don't understand why later cases were used as I don't recall any shortage of A65 cases (I have NOS cases in my garage even today.) Also it seems that in cases where a complete engine was replaced that the replacement came stamped with the original serial number & some suffix.

Though I don't recall any BSA engines arriving from the factory with upside down numbers I do distinctly remember it on T150s/160s. Once I uncrated a T160 to find the engine unstamped.



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Are the engine number stampings (A65LA 10854) on a raised pad?


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Originally Posted by Gary E
Are the engine number stampings (A65LA 10854) on a raised pad?

Yes, they are. But it's not inline as usual but instead like this:
A65L
A10854/Y (or +Y)


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I didn't have time to read all 29 pages but this -Y thing seems rather interesting. It also turns out that I have one. It's a 1967 Spitfire, purchased new by my father, who had to order it as there wasn't one at the dealer, and in the family ever since. The serial number ends in 3627-Y.

jeremy

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Originally Posted by Lew Graham
Re: Originally Posted By: Kevin (NZ).

Mark wants to know what they mean by the phrase 'It still retains it's original motor'.
What is your interpretation of that?

I think it means a matching number bike.

More precisely, I have taken it to mean that the bike left the factory with that frame number and that engine number.
The phrase 'It still retains it's original motor' avoids the confusion that can arise if the phrase 'matching numbers' is used in relation to earlier year BSAs that left the factory with frame numbers that differ from the engine numbers.
Interestingly though, when the factory were 'randomly selecting' A10 Spitfire Scrambler engines to go into frames they occasionally produced one with identical/matching NUMBERS, though the codes for the frame differ from the engine code. One of my A10 Spitfires differs by a single digit - 214 v 215 for the engine and frame numbers.


AFAIK stamping the engine numbers were the last thing done to the bike before it left the assembly line. The type number (A65LA for example ) was stamped onto the engine during the assembly process ( no ides when ) but the serial number, the last 4, 5 or 6 numbers were done after the bike was finished and in series as they came off the line so ???33,34 & 35 could have been Lightnings while 36,37 & 38 could have been Thunderbolts 39 could have been a A50.
BSA use this info to record how many bikes came off each assembly line on a daily basis


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Originally Posted by illingworth
I didn't have time to read all 29 pages but this -Y thing seems rather interesting. It also turns out that I have one. It's a 1967 Spitfire, purchased new by my father, who had to order it as there wasn't one at the dealer, and in the family ever since. The serial number ends in 3627-Y.jeremy

Want to verify that number Jeremy. It is in the middle of a bunch of Royal Star numbers. Typically, models of machines were made in groups on any given day (as Trevor said above). It's possible though that a small number of Spitfires were produced in between two groups of Royal Stars.

Last edited by Gary E; 09/17/19 10:27 am.

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Hi Trevor,

Originally Posted by BSA_WM20
AFAIK stamping the engine numbers were the last thing done to the bike before it left the assembly line. The type number (A65LA for example ) was stamped onto the engine during the assembly process ( no ides when ) but the serial number, the last 4, 5 or 6 numbers were done after the bike was finished and in series as they came off the line

Hmmm ... curious ... this wasn't the system used on the triples:-

. The little 'crankcase number' was stamped on all crankcase pieces and on the centre main bearing caps after they were machined together - to ensure they stayed together even if they were disassembled subsequently in the build process. This crankcase number identified the engine in the build book 'til it passed test at the end of assembly; only then was the 'big number' applied, along with the model code and, sometimes, the date code.

. The model code, any date code and the 'big number' were then copied on to the frame when the former was installed in the latter.

Nevertheless, I'm not saying that different systems weren't applied to different model ranges.

Hth.

Regards,

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