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Bry
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Re: Smoking Triumph
#46016 03/26/06 4:44 am
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You should have only 1-2 onces ( if that much ) of oil in the crank.
Looks like you're on to it.
IMHO, buy a new pump.
Steve


Steve in Tulsa
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Re: Smoking Triumph
#46017 03/27/06 9:52 pm
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Which begs the question, does anyone have experience with the Morego oil pumps- are the niggling check valve problems a thing of the past with these, or is it just their version of the stock Triumph oil pump?

Dean

Re: Smoking Triumph
#46018 03/28/06 2:23 am
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Sprung Morgo pumps are advertised as "high flow" replacements. Do a quick search here on Morgo pumps and all will be revealed. If memory serves, all of the "go really fast" guys here run standard pumps... should tell you enough to make an informed decision. cool


1974 TR5T
Re: Smoking Triumph
#46019 03/28/06 2:25 am
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Morego oil pumps- are the niggling check valve problems a thing of the past with these...

Not the standard Morgo oil pump. It is a plunger pump with the same check balls as the stock pump. The Morgo rotary frees you from the check ball, but to do it right it isn't a direct replacement.

Now, with this is a newly rebuilt motor - there is some indication in this thread that there is too much oil in the sump - only the right side cylinder is burning oil - are we dealing with an inverted oil feed seal in the timing cover? This will overwhelm the ability of the return side of the pump to control the amount of oil in the sump. Also the extra oil will be diverted out of the timing cover thru the two holes in the crankcase right next to the right cylinder.

A lot of the Taiwan oil seals provided under the part number 70-4568 will not hold oil pressure and will invert in service. Now that is something to think about...
2c
john


Re: Smoking Triumph
#46020 03/28/06 11:10 pm
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Ok, rebuilt oil pump, new spring in pressure release,checked oil seal it was installed correctly and not from Taiwan but no way to really check if it is sealing. Started bike and still smoking out of right side and oil blowing out of exhaust end? If these corrections worked how long should the engine take to "clean" itself out or should the results be immediate? If immediate I still got trouble.


Cliff Ginger
71 Bonneville 650RR?
73 Bonneville 750 (sold)
73 Trident
Re: Smoking Triumph
#46021 03/29/06 1:21 am
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Gee Whiz -
It would only take a few moments to return all the oil. The return pump is ~1.5X the capacity of the feed pump. If you're seeing bubbles return to the tank, then it's done its job.

Both the pressure relief valve (PRV) AND the timing cover oil seal dump oil into the timing chest. A weak PRV spring would load up the bottom end in similar fashion to the inverted timing cover oil seal that Mr H was so nice to point out.

- Since you've had the PRV apart, and since it's simple, my first choice would be to look at that again.
- You say your pressure is OK now, how did you measure it? That probably is a good witness that the TC seal is working, but I'm leary of your method of measurement.
- Next would be cleaning and inspecting the oil pump for trash on the return (big) side.
- Last would be to look for a broken oil control ring on the TS.

:bigt:


Don't hide 'em, Ride 'em !!

RF Whatley
Cornelia, GA
Re: Smoking Triumph
#46022 03/29/06 8:03 am
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I'd at least take it for a run to see if the smoke clears, because if you have fixed it you still need to burn the oil out of the pipes and mufflers. Did you take the R/H pipe off and have a look at the valve guide? see if it moves in the head, (best done when hotish)see if it spins, rocks or moves up and down.


mark
Re: Smoking Triumph
#46023 03/29/06 9:14 am
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You are going to have to run it as suggested to burn the oil out of the pipe and muffler, especially if it was dripping oil out the exhaust.


1969 TR6R
7.62 x 51 is not a maths puzzle.
Re: Smoking Triumph
#46024 03/29/06 2:17 pm
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"checked oil seal it was installed correctly and not from Taiwan but no way to really check if it is sealing."

Best checked with oil pressure guage mounted into plug at front of timing cover.

Also, a dead give away is the little "o" ring spring sitting inside the timing cover oil seal cavity.

We have found the seals made by Pioneer Weston (mind you nearly all seals are made today in places far-away) to hold the most pressure when the oil is hot. The Pioneer seals are clearly marked POS 2072.

This is not to say that some engineer gets a better idea, or some bean counter figures he can make a penny more per seal by changing the rubber composition and we start to get failures with Pioneer seals. My favorite source of unexpected problems is when an "expert" gets a hold of one of these manufacturers and convinces them that what they have been doing right for all these years is wrong. Then the fun begins...

This has been something I watch closely. My first experience with Taiwan oil seals failing in this application was nearly forty years ago. I bought 5,000 from Taiwan and it wasn't long before the calls from dealers came in. We discovered that once the seals came up to engine temperature they would invert. Things are a little bit better with oriental oil feed seals today, but not much. We still find brands that will not hold the pressure when hot.

With all of the talk about increased volume oil pumps, it is all for naught if the pressure inverts this seal. You are going to have a very expensive engine failure with an expensive oil pump. We have built a small pressure device that allows us to check the performance of these seals and find the Pioneer Weston continues to out perform other brands when hot. 2c
john


Re: Smoking Triumph
#46025 03/29/06 3:40 pm
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My oil pressure is 85psi when first started, checked with an oil pressure guage that stays mounted directly in the timing cover. checked tolerances of spring and piston in the check valve with micrometers, also checked oil pump tolerances, re-seated balls and cleaned. Still need to take for a short run to see how she does.


Cliff Ginger
71 Bonneville 650RR?
73 Bonneville 750 (sold)
73 Trident
Re: Smoking Triumph
#46026 03/29/06 4:00 pm
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"My oil pressure is 85psi..."

A little high, but it should fall as the oil warms up... it should be time go for a ride.
john


Re: Smoking Triumph
#46027 04/03/06 7:07 pm
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Here goes? run bike for about 8 miles and no smoke or oil coming out of pipes. Looks like might have it fixed? beerchug


Cliff Ginger
71 Bonneville 650RR?
73 Bonneville 750 (sold)
73 Trident
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