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Cylinder paint recommendations? #421065
02/26/12 10:58 pm
02/26/12 10:58 pm
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 31
West Sussex
D
David Manuell Offline OP
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David Manuell  Offline OP
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D

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 31
West Sussex
My TR7V cast iron barrels were blasted back to bare metal and then painted with 2 coats of Granville Cylinder Black - billed as high temperature paint for exhausts and engine cases. http://www.granvilleoil.com/product_info.php?prod_id=252

Less than 500 miles, and our poxy English winter weather and salted roads, and they're all orange at the front.

A miserable failure that turned out to be.

Last year I used Carplan black engine lacquer - which flaked off very quickly.

I'm sure I used to buy Hermetite engine laquer, and that stayed on. Unobtainable now.

What does everyone else use these days? Help!

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Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #421088
02/27/12 1:01 am
02/27/12 1:01 am
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,270
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I've been using Rust-O-Leum glossy black (rattle can) for years.

Two coats.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #421090
02/27/12 1:33 am
02/27/12 1:33 am
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 534
Maine
M
MikeinBiddeford Offline
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 534
Maine
rattle can. flat black. hi temp. it has a picture of a gas grill on it.


Please do not believe anything I write. I am a hack but I like to guess the right answers.
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #421091
02/27/12 1:34 am
02/27/12 1:34 am
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 538
NY
OriginalScott Offline
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OriginalScott  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 538
NY
Ever consider powder coat? I had my barrels powder coated over 10 years ago and they still look new. Some will tell you it keeps the heat in, which maybe it does but I haven't had any issues. It definitely solved the rusting and flaking cylinder paint problems I had before.
Scott

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #421119
02/27/12 7:11 am
02/27/12 7:11 am
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,371
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
W
Wilfred Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,371
Nanaimo, B.C. Canada
David: I don't know what you can get in UK but I used TREMCLAD HIGH HEAT ENAMEL and am very happy with the results. I used the FLAT BLACK and says it's good up to 1200 degrees F and suggested for BBQ's, fireplaces and wood stoves. "Brush" it on. Two coats. So far so good. Cheers, Wilf


"It's about the ride..."
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #421163
02/27/12 2:03 pm
02/27/12 2:03 pm
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,106
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
B
btour Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,106
Massachusetts, U.S.A.
David,

It is important to have the correct amount of time in between each coat of paint. No too short and not too long.


Bob, Lifetime bike: '71 T120R, bought in '71 at Ken Heanes, England.
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #421221
02/27/12 6:52 pm
02/27/12 6:52 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,296
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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HawaiianTiger  Offline
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Maui Hawaii
To me, it's a bit exasperating to paint cylinders only to have them rusting down deep between the fins in a matter of months. Every paint I have used will do this some sooner than later. I've been powdercoating my cylinders for over ten years now and they look great and there's never a sign of rust.
As far as retaining heat? Gimme a break. It's certainly no worse than paint and since it has a more tenacious grip on the metal than any paint it likely dissipates heat better.
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #421241
02/27/12 8:18 pm
02/27/12 8:18 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,270
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,270
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
Rust-O-Leum can be sprayed right on the rust, according to the instructions on the can. I've never done it, never needed to re-spray either.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #421909
03/01/12 8:59 pm
03/01/12 8:59 pm
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,135
Elburn, Ill. USA
I
Irish Swede Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,135
Elburn, Ill. USA
I used Rust-O-Leum BBQ Black, produced to touch-up Weber kettles,
to paint restored Harley exhaust systems, and it withstood that
high heat just fine. I have not used it on cylinders, but it should work.

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #426304
03/26/12 1:15 am
03/26/12 1:15 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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TR6Ray  Offline

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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
Cylinder paint recommendations?? Based on my experience on and off over the past few days, the paint that will stay on the cylinder block the best is whatever they used at Meriden. I thought it would be quick and easy to blast to bare metal and repaint -- not so. I blasted for a loooong time with glass beads. Thought maybe it was time to replace the media (maybe all the beads have gone to dust?). Fresh media made no real difference. Used Tal stripper on the advice of a friend. That loosened some of the stubborn stuff. Cleaned that off and went back to blasting. The part that's left will not budge. Used an application of Airline Stripper, by Rustoleum. This did nothing at all. Back in the blast cabinet. I have maybe 85% cleaned to bare iron, but still have some areas of the black coating.

If this stuff wants so badly to stay where it is, do I really need to have bare iron everywhere before I paint?


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #426306
03/26/12 1:24 am
03/26/12 1:24 am
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
T
T. Sharp Offline
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T. Sharp  Offline
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T

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
VHT Barrel Paint
Available in Gloss or Satin
Properly applied will probably outlast the bore job.
Even has a Triumph twin cylinder illustration on the can.

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: TR6Ray] #426407
03/26/12 8:13 pm
03/26/12 8:13 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,296
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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HawaiianTiger  Offline
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Posts: 6,296
Maui Hawaii
Ray,
You have to burn it off with a torch!
If you use paint stripper, it only makes it soft and glass beads just bounce off.
You're screwed now. It a matter of labor now to the get it off. (or torch it)
Bill


Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: HawaiianTiger] #426470
03/27/12 3:25 am
03/27/12 3:25 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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TR6Ray  Offline

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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
Originally Posted by HawaiianTiger
Ray,
You have to burn it off with a torch!
If you use paint stripper, it only makes it soft and glass beads just bounce off.
You're screwed now. It a matter of labor now to the get it off. (or torch it)
Bill

Bill, That's nothing new -- I think I screwed myself when I brought this thing home crazy

Sounds like you are telling me that it's no good quitting with just the loose stuff off; I need to get all of it to bare metal?

It's maybe not so bad -- I have about 85% of it off. What sort of torch are you talking about -- propane or more serious? Does the whole cylinder block need to be warmed up to prevent cracking or other damage from localized heating?

When you say it's a matter of labor, are you talking sanding? I guess I could use a strip of emory paper and run it back and forth through the fins. Here's a couple pictures of where I'm at. Like you said, the glass beads just bounce off with no effect on the areas that are still black.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #426578
03/27/12 7:26 pm
03/27/12 7:26 pm
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,296
Maui Hawaii
HawaiianTiger Offline
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HawaiianTiger  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,296
Maui Hawaii
Ray,
If you want to, you could use a propane torch to purge any paint remover solvent from the cylinder then paint over that. I would blast the remaining rust off though.
I have a small butane torch(crack users favorite) that I use for small items. It gets way hotter than the propane torch I have.
Pre-heating is never a bad idea.
When I powdercoat my cylinders, It's always BEFORE the bore and hone, just to be safe.
Bill

Last edited by HawaiianTiger; 03/27/12 7:26 pm.

Bikes
1974 Commando
1985 Honda Nighthawk 650
1957 Thunderbird/T110 "Flying Tiger"
Antique Fans: Loads of Emersons (Two six wingers) plus gyros and orbiters.
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: HawaiianTiger] #426581
03/27/12 7:43 pm
03/27/12 7:43 pm
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,533
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
JBMorris Online content
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JBMorris  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,533
Farmington,Connecticut,USA
Originally Posted by TR6Ray
the paint that will stay on the cylinder block the best is whatever they used at Meriden.

Good question!
Anyone know the answer?
Must be pretty good if you need blasting caps and dynamite to remove it!
shocked


1978 Bonneville T140V PX
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: T. Sharp] #426584
03/27/12 8:02 pm
03/27/12 8:02 pm
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 31
West Sussex
D
David Manuell Offline OP
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David Manuell  Offline OP
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D

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 31
West Sussex
T Sharp - I might give that VHT engine spray a go - you can get it here in the UK on Amazon etc. Unfotunately it's not got a picture of Triumph barrels!

[Linked Image]

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #426594
03/27/12 8:53 pm
03/27/12 8:53 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
T
T. Sharp Offline
BritBike Forum member
T. Sharp  Offline
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T

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
David, be sure to heat cure after painting and before installation. A small oven or even hot-plate will do.
About 45 minutes to an hour and you're done.
It's a shame they don't use the picture of the Triumph barrels in England!

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: T. Sharp] #426613
03/27/12 10:17 pm
03/27/12 10:17 pm
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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TR6Ray  Offline

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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
HT, Thanks for the torch info, but I don't think I will have to do that. For some reason, even though glass beads at various pressures and shot from different angles won't seem to do anything, I found I can sand the stubborn stuff off fairly easily. I used a thin piece of wood (cedar shim stock) with sand paper wrapped over the end, and worked it between the fins like a sanding block.

I don't know what Triumph used on here, but am sure it is the original coating. It looks like the cylinders were dipped, because there are a couple of obvious runs. It must have then been baked.

T. Sharp, I already had a can of VHT Engine Paint that I was planning to use (recommended by a friend who has had good luck with it). When you posted about the Barrel Paint, I started to wonder what the difference was. Both are sold by VHT, and both are rated for 550 deg F. I called the number on the VHT web site, and the gal I talked to had never heard of Barrel Paint. I had to tell her how I found it on their website. She put me on hold for a while and asked somebody else. They finally said that the Barrel Paint is the same as the Engine Paint, but has a bit more rust prevention additive.

The VHT web site also listed the same part number for their primer as for their paint. When I got her to check on that, she found that the number listed for the Barrel Paint is wrong. It should be SP905 for gloss, and SP906 for satin.

Finally, VHT lists a bunch of stores as "where to buy it", but they won't sell it to retail customers themselves. My local Auto Zone, O'Reilly's, Advance Auto, Winner's Circle, Farm and Fleet were all listed but none of them carry it. O'Reilly's said they can special order it for me.

GrandPaul, your Rustoleum recommendation is looking better all the time, but I'm kind of intrigued by finding something actually called Barrel Paint.



'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: TR6Ray] #426620
03/27/12 11:41 pm
03/27/12 11:41 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
T
T. Sharp Offline
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T. Sharp  Offline
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T

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
Yea Ray, I got the same run-around and mis-information from them years ago. The 905/906 numbers sound right. Be careful if you order it from a auto parts house; they call their distributor who finds a 12 year old case of six cans in the warehouse and sends it out to the dealer. The labels will be all bubbled from rust under the paper.
It's a shame it's such a pain to get fresh stock.
While I never had any luck in the past with Rustoleum products on the jugs; things have changed big time! The same people own Rustoleum, VHT, Dupli-Color, and many others. I'm sure there is much tech and info swapping between the brands. Rustoleum has an enamel that when heat cured is almost as tough as powder coating.( Not meant for high heat) Dupli-Color has a kick-ass nozzle, very smooth.

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #426646
03/28/12 5:32 am
03/28/12 5:32 am
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 44
Australia
3
303brit Offline
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303brit  Offline
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3

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 44
Australia
I had an additive called "stoving velox" that when mixed with enamel turned it into a powder coat type coating.
It said to bake at 220f for 20 mins.
It didn't use any undercoat or etch.
Dryed hard as rock and very durable, maybe this is what Triumph used on their barrels?
Have never been able to find anymore and my gallon lasted me 20 years, anyone know anything about it?

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #426683
03/28/12 1:18 pm
03/28/12 1:18 pm
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,270
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
GrandPaul Online content
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GrandPaul  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,270
Laredo (South) Texas, USA
I thought Triumph used cured Stove Enamel?

Rust-O-Leum has worked every time for me, with still-lasting good looks years and miles later...


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: David Manuell] #426774
03/28/12 9:48 pm
03/28/12 9:48 pm
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 117
Fife,Scotland, UK
Grin Offline
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Grin  Offline
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Posts: 117
Fife,Scotland, UK
Been powder coating cast barrels for many a year now,lasts a lot longer than any paint.

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: Grin] #426801
03/29/12 1:09 am
03/29/12 1:09 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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TR6Ray  Offline

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Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
Powder coating is probably the right way to go, but the company that did my frame parts has changed hands (I think I have lost my connection there). I've decided to try the VHT paint. Today, I ordered a can each of prep, primer, gloss black, and clear. I probably don't need more than just the black barrel paint itself, but I guess they must make the rest of it for a reason. We'll see how it works out.


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)
Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: TR6Ray] #426930
03/29/12 9:36 pm
03/29/12 9:36 pm
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
T
T. Sharp Offline
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T. Sharp  Offline
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T

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 430
Nashville, Tn.
Ray, they make the other products to pump up sales!
I've never used anything more than the paint, but I'd be leary of any 'prep' product that was acid based unless it can be immediately rinsed and neutralized.
One would have to wonder what an acid based residual could do to bores and lifter blocks over time.
If you use the clear over gloss, they'll probably see you coming from three blocks away.
Tom

Re: Cylinder paint recommendations? [Re: T. Sharp] #426971
03/30/12 3:44 am
03/30/12 3:44 am
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
TR6Ray Offline

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Posts: 2,604
Illinois, USA
Tom,

You are probably right about pumping up the sales -- they got me, but not for too much overall. In any case, the tappet guide blocks are out and I have plastic plugs in their place. The bores are sealed off on a sort of plywood jig with gaskets top and bottom (a poor imitation of what I have seen in posts from Trevor and Blapper on here). I did that to keep glass beads away from the bores and the gasket surfaces while blasting. Will probably leave it set up that way for painting as well.

I don't think the gloss is really very shiny, and the clear is probably the same, but I plan to test a little on something first to see how it looks. I thought about the satin paint, but most Triumph pictures I see appear to have somewhat glossy barrel paint. Maybe some others could give their opinions on that -- satin or gloss for the barrels?

(I thought HD had the market cornered on flat black, or black crinkle in their case. I'm not knocking the look. I have 2 Harleys with that matte black on the jugs. BTW they started powder coating their jugs from the factory circa 1993. The paint on my '92 has not held up as well as the powder on my '95. I would powder coat my TR6 jugs, but am reluctant to let them out of my hands. I know I'm a bit A.R. in that regard. Did a 420 mile round trip with my FLHR today to hand deliver my TR6 parts to the cad plater, just because I couldn't stand the thought of UPS perhaps losing it all. While I was gone, the UPS guy delivered a package from Klempf's and another from an eBay seller, both in perfect order.)

Ray


'64 TR6R Plus some Twins from other countries (U.S., Germany, Japan)

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