BritBike Forum logo
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
BritBike Sponsor BritBike Sponsor
The Bonneville Shop BritBike Sponsor
Home | Sponsors, Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum
| Spiders Cartoons, | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
ShoutChat Box
Buy BritBike staff a coffee
Buy BritBike's staff a coffeeStill here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts..
Search eBay for motorcycle parts in following countries
Australia, Canada, France, Holland, Italy, United Kingdom, USA
Random Gallery photo
Member Spotlight
BeezaBryan
BeezaBryan
Derbyshire UK
Posts: 3,185
Joined: April 2006
Show All Member Profiles 
Newest Members
Motoplane33, Loop, Filthy pup, Kevin Victor, Soupdragon
10739 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
franko 124
reverb 53
DavidP 51
Rohan 48
Popular Topics(Views)
925,119 mail-order LSR
Forum Statistics
Forums34
Topics67,183
Posts673,295
Members10,739
Most Online14,755
May 5th, 2019
Who's Online Now
70 registered members (998John), 482 guests, and 836 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Camshaft end play #366006
04/01/11 11:33 am
04/01/11 11:33 am
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Hi,

sadly it turns out, that the exhaust thread repair does not hold (see Post http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=364273#Post364273).
It comes out of the head more and more, so that the exhaust pipe can't be fastened anymore. So I stripped down head and barrels again and noticed, that the
new JP piston had already a seizure and has to be renewed as well. The cams look good. I measured the endplay of the camshaft. It is about 0.15" (0.4mm).

Is that still in limit ?

Regards,
Ralf

[Linked Image]


Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Support Your #1 BritBike Forum!

Check out British motorcycles for sale:
British Motorcycles on e-Bay UK, British motorcycles on e-Bay North America


Re: Camshaft end play [Re: Towner] #366036
04/01/11 3:28 pm
04/01/11 3:28 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,023
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
BritBike Forum member
L.A.B.  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,023
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by Towner
The cams look good. I measured the endplay of the camshaft. It is about 0.15" (0.4mm)


I hope you mean 0.015" (15 thou' = .381mm)? As 0.15" is 3.81mm.

If so, then that sounds OK.

Previous JP piston thread: http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=314083

Re: Camshaft end play [Re: Towner] #366042
04/01/11 3:59 pm
04/01/11 3:59 pm
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,896
Scotland
kommando Online content
BritBike Forum member
kommando  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,896
Scotland
JP uses a low number of base castings to cover a wide range of final applications, hence for most applications they start with a large casting and machine off the required amount. Except for a few applications at the lower end of the sizes the base casting covers they are always heavier than the original piston, that together with the small batch sizes they work with which seems to result in missed machining operations means they should only be considered as a last resort. I would be looking for some Hepolites or using the Cyclecraft (if they do 850 pistons) with a good ring brand.

I also had an 850 with a bronze insert for the exhaust thread repair which came loose, I sent the head to Mick Hemmings who welded a new aluminium insert. He charged the same as for a normal repair on stripped threads but there was extra work involved.

Re: Camshaft end play [Re: kommando] #366074
04/01/11 7:28 pm
04/01/11 7:28 pm
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Hi,

@LAB: 0,015" of course (0,40mm).

I sent head and barrels to an experienced mechanic, who will weld new aluminium inserts. He has also good experiences with GPM pistons which are sold by Andover Norton . It may be possible that he can still use the first oversize.

Ralf


Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Re: Camshaft end play [Re: Towner] #366215
04/02/11 3:09 pm
04/02/11 3:09 pm
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 338
FLORIDA
A
Alan Prudhomme Offline
BritBike Forum member
Alan Prudhomme  Offline
BritBike Forum member
A

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 338
FLORIDA
Do yourself a big favor and buy some brass exhaust nuts. Alloy expands twice as much as steel which makes keeping steel nuts almost impossible to keep tight. I suspect the crack in your head was caused by the alloy not being able to shrink fully on the steel nut (possible)???
I bought chrome plated brass nuts and they loosened up like the iron ones do....think I got the brass ones from NORVIL. The brass nuts stay put so you can toss all the tab washers wire and springs. Brass expands at the same rate aluminum does.

Re: Camshaft end play [Re: Towner] #366235
04/02/11 4:50 pm
04/02/11 4:50 pm
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Hi,

the thread repair problem very likely comes from using a steel insert.

Regards,
Ralf
[Linked Image]



Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Re: Camshaft end play [Re: L.A.B.] #367420
04/09/11 5:14 pm
04/09/11 5:14 pm
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Originally Posted by L.A.B.
Originally Posted by Towner
The cams look good. I measured the endplay of the camshaft. It is about 0.15" (0.4mm)


I hope you mean 0.015" (15 thou' = .381mm)? As 0.15" is 3.81mm.

If so, then that sounds OK.

Previous JP piston thread: http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=314083


I am not really sure that I got the correct reading, because it is not easy to measure. So I tried it again today. May be more than 0.015" but defintety less than 0,04" (1mm). Where is the limit and can it be adjusted without splitting the cases ?

edit: I just managed it to measure it more exactly with a feeler gauge at the thrust washer. It is 0.027" (0,7mm).

[Linked Image]
Thanks,
Ralf

Last edited by Towner; 04/09/11 6:13 pm.

Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Re: Camshaft end play [Re: Towner] #367430
04/09/11 6:42 pm
04/09/11 6:42 pm
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
I recognized that only one thrust washer can be seen on the timing side. But in the manual is stated that after engine number 200000 2 washer are required....

The left conical washer (06-1086) is on my camshaft:

http://www.oldbritts.com/cam_bush.html

Last edited by Towner; 04/09/11 6:58 pm.

Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Re: Camshaft end play [Re: Towner] #367443
04/09/11 8:08 pm
04/09/11 8:08 pm
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,023
Norfolk, UK
L.A.B. Online content
BritBike Forum member
L.A.B.  Online Content
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,023
Norfolk, UK
Originally Posted by Towner
I recognized that only one thrust washer can be seen on the timing side. But in the manual is stated that after engine number 200000 2 washer are required....


My factory manual copy gives the following information:

"On engines between numbers 200000 and 300000, a flat thrust washer is fitted between this chamfered washer and the crankcase."

As your Commando is a 1973 850 model, it should have an engine number higher than 300000? So, no second washer.

Also, check what it says in the Old Britts info:

"06-2601 -- NORTON, Washer, Thrust, Camshaft, Some 1972( $5.62 each). This tabbed thrust washer is only used when fitting the 06-2600 bushing and there is a locating hole for the tab in the crank case."

Re: Camshaft end play [Re: L.A.B.] #367503
04/10/11 7:44 am
04/10/11 7:44 am
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Yes, my Commndo has number 312091. So one washer is right. Thanks for the information. In my manual and also in the Haynes they only talk about later than 200000.

I found this post from Dave Comeau which confirms my reading of 0.030". In this post they also say, that the tabbed washers should be avoided.
http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=69240#Post69240

Originally Posted by Dave Comeau

..... and the cases and thrust washers are normally 1.105" total giving .030" end float/clearance.


Regards,
Ralf


Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973
Re: Camshaft end play [Re: Towner] #373391
05/15/11 10:53 am
05/15/11 10:53 am
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Towner Offline OP
BritBike Forum member
Towner  Offline OP
BritBike Forum member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Lower Rhine Area, Germany
Hi,

the parts are back and my Commando is ready again. I also mounted new exhaust pipes and lock rings. The reason for the piston seizure were not the JP pistons but a wrong clearance of only 0.0035" (0.09mm ).

Ralf

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Triumph Bonneville 650 T120RV 1972
Norton Commando 850 MKII 1973

Moderated by  Dave Comeau 

Home | Sponsors | Newsletter | Regalia | Calendar | Bike Project | BritBike Museum | Spiders Cartoons | DVD- Manuals & Parts books
Upgrade to: Premium Membership | Premium Life Membership | Vendor Membership | Site Sponsor Membership
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1