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Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
#33145 01/16/08 11:50 am
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Does anyone have a colour match for the light green colour that AMAL used to paint some TT carburettor bodies and floats?

And can anyone tell me why they painted some and not others?


Myles Raymond, Glasgow, Scotland.

1934 BSA R35-4 DeLuxe, 1949 ZB32 Clubman Gold Star, 1955 BSA A7ss, 1961 DBD34 Clubman Gold Star and others.
"A tidy workshop is a shop where no work is ever done" - my Dad.
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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
#33146 01/17/08 11:43 pm
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Over the years I have seen a couple of restored bikes with 'painted' carb bodies. Always found it hard to believe the factory did this....

Years later when I purchased my gs the carb had a greenish-goldish look and it does not look like paint. More like a -Chromate Conversion- common to many alloy carb bodies on some 60's cars.
[Linked Image]

The best I could come up with is a product/process called ALODINE. Do a google and you can find more interesting info on this.

I would like to give it a try, but have not spent any time sourcing. Sure 'seems' better than paint, and looks like what my gp alloy has been treated with....

Perhaps other can comment...

cheers


"Back in the garage with my [***] detector
Carbon monoxide making sure it's effective...
----THE CLASH-----

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
#33147 01/18/08 1:22 am
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AMAL brochures for their aluminium bodied 'racing' carburetters describe the finish on the mixing body and float chamber body as "sprayed on durable and attractive metallic lacquer"
ALODINE is a chemical coating used on aluminium to promote the adhesion of primer and top coat paint layers. It is relatively 'soft' and non abrasion resistant but used because the process is cheaper than the alternative anodizing. B.M.L.S.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
#33148 01/18/08 12:36 pm
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Thanks for all responses so far!

I have a NOS TT body that still has the finish on it. The colour is a bit faded but is definitely painted on rather than a chemical treatment.

It also doesn't stain or dissolve when soaked with petrol.

That makes sense but limits my choice when I try to find a match.


Myles Raymond, Glasgow, Scotland.

1934 BSA R35-4 DeLuxe, 1949 ZB32 Clubman Gold Star, 1955 BSA A7ss, 1961 DBD34 Clubman Gold Star and others.
"A tidy workshop is a shop where no work is ever done" - my Dad.
Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
#33149 01/28/08 10:51 pm
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I recall the GPs on the Spitfires Mk-somethings, the ones everyone threw away, as being distinctly light green. The earlier ones I've had, including a GP that was taken off a DBD a week after it was delivered in 1963, are the very thin gold, so think it is more like a wash or a stain than paint. Though heavier and more coloured than alodine.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823785 09/14/20 11:12 pm
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Resurrecting an old thread. Anyone out there have any info on this subject?

bels posted above about AMAL brochures mentioning sprayed on lacquer. Anyone out there have a brochure that does mention it? I’ve search around and read a few, but no mention of paint.


[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]5A80AA46-74F5-47E3-A8FC-72A22B7B6536 by First Last, on Flickr

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]BDE35D6F-5288-49DF-BD70-A4037610C871 by First Last, on Flickr

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]F4C07BB6-2ABB-4D08-99C8-4A52F387D323 by First Last, on Flickr

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823788 09/14/20 11:30 pm
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Is it a green-yelolw?

Or is the color GOLD?

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823790 09/14/20 11:40 pm
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I have two TTs and a GP, but all three have silver bodies. Which is a shame, since there's a 50/50 chance I could identify the pigment with my Raman spectrometer. It's hard to tell the true color from the photographs but it easily could be cadmium plating

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Irish Swede #823794 09/15/20 12:04 am
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I’ve been collecting photos and it seems as though there were different shades... different colour even. Plus whatever it is seems to fade and “reasonably” sure it’s not plating. Not sure where the OP got the green from, although I suppose you could argue the first one is sort of green.

MM, do you have any AMAL brochures? Wonder if bels‘s post is accurate. I haven’t seen any that mention paint, but haven’t seen many brochures.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]2F1FCBC3-4AFF-440A-AD7E-053F57C8D8EC by First Last, on Flickr

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]5A80AA46-74F5-47E3-A8FC-72A22B7B6536 by First Last, on Flickr

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]BDE35D6F-5288-49DF-BD70-A4037610C871 by First Last, on Flickr

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Cyborg #823797 09/15/20 12:28 am
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Originally Posted by Cyborg
MM, do you have any Amal brochures? Wonder if bels‘s post is accurate. I haven’t seen any that mention paint, but haven’t seen many brochures.
I found six different ones for the GP and GP.2 and two for the TT, but a very quick flip through them didn't show any mention of finish. I'll have more time to look 90 min. from now (but by then might have forgotten ...).

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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Magnetoman #823802 09/15/20 1:13 am
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Originally Posted by Magnetoman
I'll have more time to look 90 min. from now (but by then might have forgotten ...).


Ahh yes, the non-fatal onset of CRS.


Bill B...


Boomer
Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823806 09/15/20 1:23 am
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No rush... won’t be painting anytime soon. We became world champions today. Even stopped going into the shop, because it’s not that airtight.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]6753E4AE-DE17-4DF0-8B86-5173AEEE0EF4 by First Last, on Flickr

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823808 09/15/20 1:34 am
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Thank you, that's one championship we gladly relinquish.


Bill B...


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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823810 09/15/20 1:49 am
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I always thought the coating was a varnish type that was sprayed or brushed on. I've seen some carb bodies that even had runs in the coating.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Bill B...


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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823813 09/15/20 2:05 am
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Well a run would certainly confirm some sort of paint or varnish.... and that is GP I assume,

I spoke to a friend in Portland yesterday. Yikes!
You can tell it’s not just forests burning, smells like tires, plastics etc. ..Hope you are somewhere safe.

Last edited by Cyborg; 09/15/20 2:09 am.
Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823814 09/15/20 2:10 am
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I'll see your 270 and raise you 61. This was the reading in Melbourne when we were visiting potential lenders there in January.

[Linked Image]

However, we only had to breathe that toxic air for a day, while you people on the west coast have been living it for a lot longer than that.


p.s. I only read the two TT brochures, because that's what you asked about, and neither mentions cosmetics, like possible paint or plating.

Last edited by Magnetoman; 09/15/20 2:36 am.
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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Cyborg #823821 09/15/20 3:10 am
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Originally Posted by Cyborg
.Hope you are somewhere safe.


Yes, inside my house. One side benefit might be that a lot more people are staying inside and self quarantining.

And yes, a NOS GP 1 take off from a G80CS.



Bill B...


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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Cyborg #823864 09/15/20 12:06 pm
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As the owner of the 10TT9 pictured below, I can vouch for the accuracy of the color rendition:


[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]BDE35D6F-5288-49DF-BD70-A4037610C871 by First Last, on Flickr
/quote]

Further, having owned that carb for the past 38 years, I can say that the only thing that's happened to the color is that its intensity may have faded slightly.

BTW, for anyone who may be interested, I have that 10TT9 up for sale currently, along with a GP1.
Cheers,
. Gregg


Spyder Integrated Technologies
Lucas, BTH, & Miller Magneto & Dynamo Restoration
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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823869 09/15/20 12:41 pm
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Some AMAL Monoblocs sold new in the "aftermarket" in the 1950s also were that color.

The dual carb manifold and Monobloc kit for the Triumph T110 listed in the TRI-COR catalog for 1958 shows a full-float bowl and a chopped Monobloc.

I have both, and they have traces of this color on them. The color is a gold that is close to that which some Chrysler engine block were painted in the 1950s.

Was this supposed to be a protective coating, or just to simulate the old bronze Amals?

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
gREgg-K #823890 09/15/20 3:50 pm
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Originally Posted by gREgg-K
As the owner of the 10TT9 pictured below, I can vouch for the accuracy of the color rendition:


[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]BDE35D6F-5288-49DF-BD70-A4037610C871 by First Last, on Flickr
/quote]

Further, having owned that carb for the past 38 years, I can say that the only thing that's happened to the color is that its intensity may have faded slightly.

BTW, for anyone who may be interested, I have that 10TT9 up for sale currently, along with a GP1.
Cheers,
. Gregg

Gregg,

Any idea what the coating might be?

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823894 09/15/20 4:25 pm
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Eastwood sell various carb paints/lacquers including a bronze translucent acrylic enamel which might work, see This Link

This is meant to replicate the original zinc chromate plating but whether thats what AMAL used is anyones guess.


1968 A65 Firebird
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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823897 09/15/20 4:51 pm
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Well if they ever reopen the border and shipping gets back to normal, I’ll buy some and give it a try.

I never gave the subject much thought in the past and just assumed what colour was left was just varnish/ residue from fuel. I just went through the bin and came across these. The one on the left shows the coating was washed away by the fuel coming out of the vent hole. If fuel removes it over time, then likely any carb cleaner would rip it all off.



[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]46DC0EB7-FBEC-4C00-AF55-3E9CBB2C9069 by First Last, on Flickr

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
gunner #823899 09/15/20 5:03 pm
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Originally Posted by gunner
Eastwood sell various carb paints/lacquers including a bronze translucent acrylic enamel which might work, see This Link

This is meant to replicate the original zinc chromate plating but whether thats what Amal used is anyones guess.

Just checked the US Eastwood site and can’t find it listed. Searched with the description and then with SKU.
Sent them an email... will post the reply.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823901 09/15/20 5:25 pm
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A friend use to work for a company that supplied parts to aerospace industry and home-built aircraft market. They applied alodine to some aluminum parts. The process they used involved dipping the part into the solution. The color would vary depending on how long you left the part in the solution. I believe alodine was considered a protective coating like zinc-chromate on steel.


Laurence Luce
Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #823915 09/15/20 7:55 pm
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Spitfire GP's didn't look to be colored, so I went with the natural original finish.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

On the subject of air quality, this is a portion of Oregon today: Eugene 512. Places in Southern Oregon were over 500 yesterday.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
slow learner #824001 09/16/20 5:10 pm
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Originally Posted by slow learner
A friend use to work for a company that supplied parts to aerospace industry and home-built aircraft market. They applied alodine to some aluminum parts. The process they used involved dipping the part into the solution. The color would vary depending on how long you left the part in the solution. I believe alodine was considered a protective coating like zinc-chromate on steel.

I was discussing that possibility with another forum member and he came to the conclusion that it wasn’t Alodine because the internals weren’t coated. For example, the velocity stack is coated on the outside only, so they weren’t dipped and I doubt they would brush or spray on Alodine. The fact that they aren’t coated internally also eliminates anodizing.

No answer back yet from Eastwood. I’m guessing the new improved version was a dud.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824007 09/16/20 5:43 pm
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I have had this conversation about the paints used by IMI AMAL with Barry Johnson managing director of IMI AMAL. He laughed when I asked him the question. Let me put this in context. IMI is a rather large company and all buying was done through a central division. His response was, "The cheapest paint that the central stores could find. The color would vary based on who they could find the cheapest"

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824033 09/16/20 9:31 pm
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Per John Healy;

Typical English attitude (I'm married to one.)

And the English claim the SCOTS are "cheap!"

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824048 09/17/20 12:05 am
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A Scot cheap? If I can grind a piece of tool steel and use it remove the bezel on a Smiths magnetic tach...replace the glass and reuse the bezel, then I figure the clan should get our the pipes and the good whiskey. Should probably finish crimping the bezel back on without breaking anything before I start beating my chest.

BTW, thank you very much John. I now know in order to keep the rivet counters happy with my TT carburetor restoration, I need to seek out the cheapest paint I can find regardless of colour..... and apparently don’t have to worry about fuel resistance either.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Cyborg #824058 09/17/20 2:37 am
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He didn’t share the type of paint they used. While the color varied, it certainly was fuel resistant.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824060 09/17/20 2:52 am
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So if the cheapest color is pink?


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1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824079 09/17/20 12:10 pm
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Quote
So if the cheapest color is pink?

Sure, but only if it is a shade of gray.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824080 09/17/20 12:57 pm
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Two from a drawer of many - Extreme ends of the spectrum.Several with colors in between.

So for the AMAL Paint color police both original -
[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

It looks from the chipping that what ever the coating is, it is some form of "paint" or the like.

For those who care about the reflective color the pictures were taken under "warm" led lighting.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824086 09/17/20 3:33 pm
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Thanks, I’ll add those to my image collection. My fuel proof comment stemmed from this.. although considering the length of exposure ( dribbling out the vent) it likely would have be resistant to a reasonable degree. I was just being.....

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]46DC0EB7-FBEC-4C00-AF55-3E9CBB2C9069 by First Last, on Flickr


I have a rather rare TT that has a broken spring clip and the “air funnel” as they call it is seized. A strap wrench doesn’t have enough bite to break it free, so I tried an experiment with one out of the parts drawer that was suffering from the same problem. The nut was lose, but damaged from someone using a pipe wrench and it has a mismatched jet block.

Submerged the air tunnel in molten Cerrobend. When solidified put in the freezer overnight. An aluminum bar that was a reasonably snug fit in the slide bore was heated on the stove and installed in order to help quickly heat the carb body, give a bit of leverage and help prevent in warping or distortion when rotating the body. A propane torch was also used to add heat to the body. The large lump of cold Cerrobend kept the air tunnel from expanding. Turned the carb body off which took a fair amount of force. Threads were “ok”, and there was black material that could have been some sort of thread locker. Put the can with the air tunnel back in the oven. The Cerrobend is more dense that aluminum, so the tunnel just bobs up to the surface. Turned the hash marks off the nut and used an end mill to clean up the slots.


[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]15138F06-474E-499A-8E1D-015756F07052 by First Last, on Flickr

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]0380D52A-4365-4BB6-9D08-E812F7C5B5BB by First Last, on Flickr

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]4DDFC3D6-A145-444A-A3EC-8A67105E5A19 by First Last, on Flickr

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]5755BC18-042A-4C61-92E1-92CE6A4D13C4 by First Last, on Flickr

Last edited by Cyborg; 09/18/20 2:59 pm.
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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824114 09/17/20 11:38 pm
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That velocity tube locking nut can be a stubborn one to undo if the carb has been exposed to the elements for a long time. I fabricated a simple wrench for dealing with it.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Parking meters this time for the robot question.


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1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824149 09/18/20 3:30 pm
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Fortunately I haven’t had too much trouble with the lock nuts, it’s just the stacks. I thought about making a wrench with 2 tangs, but you have upped the anti. Very nicely made. I’m assuming that was cut out with CNC water jet? I’d probably never get around to assembling any bikes if I had access to one of those.


Don’t think these ones came painted.

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]F87EC1FE-FFFB-4E73-89B0-8247F50133BD by First Last, on Flickr


Got a response back from Eastwood:

“Hi there,
We do not currently carry the Bronze Carb Renew anymore.

Customer Solutions Technical Support Specialist”

So I guess it remains to be seen if they don’t carry it anymore in the future.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824153 09/18/20 4:35 pm
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[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Reflective color matching is an art. It requires an understanding of why color changes depending upon the source of light illuminating the object. The top picture is as the iPhone caught the light from incandescent bulbs.

What you see on your computer is influenced by the color balance of your terminal.

The lower picture was brought into photoshop and adjusted closer to what I was seeing (with no tint of green) when I took the picture. The carb bodies were more light silver than even the lower picture interprets the body color.

While I appreciate what people are looking for. You must understand to make comparisons of reflective color the original, and the copy, must be viewed under the same light source. View color under sunlight and it will look different under flash, strobe, incandescent, LED and fluorescent and the color temperature of each. As I said above this was a question asked some 40 years ago, according to Barry Johnston they used whatever color supplied by IMI company stores. And when you look at a draw full of GP and TT carbs under the same light source they vary a lot.

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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824155 09/18/20 4:58 pm
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That's why years ago, KODAK made special color photo films for different lighting conditions.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Irish Swede #824160 09/18/20 5:48 pm
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Originally Posted by Cyborg
Fortunately I haven’t had too much trouble with the lock nuts, it’s just the stacks. I thought about making a wrench with 2 tangs, but you have upped the anti. Very nicely made. I’m assuming that was cut out with CNC water jet? I’d probably never get around to assembling any bikes if I had access to one of those.

Me too if having a CNC water jet. Actually though that wrench tool was made by hand. Sometimes, too much idle time will spawn innovation.


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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824170 09/18/20 7:32 pm
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After seeing some of the colours, I glad they vary. Will just replicate the colour of one of my float bowls that looks ok. I’m not sure I would bother with the painting at all if it weren’t for the fact that the TT’s in question were highly polished at some point and they don’t look right to me. It’s not for show.....just want it to look right when I’m sitting there staring at the bike with a scotch in hand. Glad whoever it was didn’t go to town and polish all the numbers off.
Thanks for the info and posting the pictures John.

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824209 09/19/20 9:47 am
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VHT make an engine enamel spray paint which may work and is available your side of the pond, see This Link.

They claim the paint has superior chemical and temp resistance and is fuel proof. There is a range of colours available including universal gold which might just be a match for your carbs.


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Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
gunner #824212 09/19/20 12:47 pm
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Originally Posted by gunner
VHT make an engine enamel spray paint which may work and is available your side of the pond, see This Link.

They claim the paint has superior chemical and temp resistance and is fuel proof. There is a range of colours available including universal gold which might just be a match for your carbs.
I have used VHT engine paint products. They perform well. Having used the VHT gold color, I can say it is very gold, with a very strong gold tint.


1967 BSA Wasp
1967 BSA Hornet (West Coast Model)
1967 BSA Hornet (East Coast Model)
1968 BSA Firebird Scrambler
1968 BSA Spitfire Mark IV
1965 Cyclone Competition Build
Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824218 09/19/20 3:02 pm
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There is an auto parts store here that also specializes in paint and body supplies.... much more so than the average store or even others under the same flag. The paint department can mix pretty much whatever you want and fill a (decent) aerosol can. You just have to deal with the shelf life if it’s 2 part epoxy etc.
I do have a small gun that would be fine, but sometimes the rattle cans are preferable just so I don’t have to deal with the thinners afterwards. The guy running the paint dept is a car nut and very knowledgeable, so hopefully he is still there. I say decent aerosol can, because after using some from Japan I found out there are some out there that perform at a whole different level.

Another TT photo

[Linked Image from live.staticflickr.com]02A3258D-8E74-46AE-AB21-C3A6DBD98BBB by First Last, on Flickr

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824298 09/20/20 6:46 pm
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I belive it to be chromate. A treatment which comes in many colors It cn be applied simply by dipping in the solution. just do a google search for green chromate. or www.fastenright.com/specials/materials-and-finishes/green-chromate-…


I APOLOGIZE FOR THE USE OF CAPS. I CAN ONLY TYPE WITH MY RIGHT HAND SO USING THE SHIFT KEY IS BEYOND MY CAPABILITES.

The Devil is in the details.

1957 BSA A10 Spitfire Scrambler (numbers matching, very correct, very nice condition)
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1967 BSA A65 West Coast Hornet (under restoration)
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2001 Kawasaki W650
Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824462 09/22/20 3:00 pm
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Hi all.

I have a bank of 3 T10 GP2's 1-3/16 that were used on the 1970/1 Meriden factory racing Daytona machines, all are of a silver hue although one is a darker shade than the other two, appears to be a painted finish. An AMAL spec sheet dated May 1962 (list 115/1) describes the finish as 'Bodies sprayed with durable and attractive metallic lacquer. Mixing chamber cap, plated and polished'

KR

Neil

Re: Colour match for green Amal TT paint?
Myles Raymond #824934 09/27/20 12:30 am
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I always assumed that it was a protective coating for (magnesium alloy) as used on engines like the AJS 7R. OTH it was more likely a cheapscate method of avoiding finishing the castings nicely.

Last edited by Joolstacho; 09/27/20 12:32 am.
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