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1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo #288294
12/10/09 8:33 pm
12/10/09 8:33 pm
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
UK
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CAB Offline OP
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CAB  Offline OP
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UK
Hello
The 1966 MK11 Spitfire project that I bought was missing both instruments. The BSA parts manual for 1966 lists the speedo as SSM.5001-03 and for 1967 it is listed as SSM-5001/05. The rev counter is the same for both years.
I have a contact that restores instruments and he is hopefully going to source a speedo and rev counter for me and rebuild them. He has asked me to double check the ratio of the speedo drive. I have done this and it has 2:1 on the casing. I rang my contact back with this information and I asked him if that matches the 150 mph speedo that I have seen on most Spifires. He said that for a 150 mph speedo the bike should be fitted with a 1.25:1 drive. Sure enough for a 1967 bike, the parts manual lists a 1.25:1 drive (part number 19-9217). The 1966 parts book lists a 21 x 10 drive (68-6080) for a WM19-2 rim and a 2 x 1 drive (41-6026) for a WM3-18 rim. My Spitfire cam with two Borriani rims, the rear being a WM3-18. It looks as if the speedo drive is correct for the year (1966) and wheel. My contact is going to check but he is sure that a 2:1 speedo drive is for a 120 mph speedo not a 150 mph. So does this mean that a 1966 MK11 Spitfire would have been fitted with a 120 mph speedo that was then changed in 1967 to a 150 mph? All the Sptfire instrument pictures that I have seen have 150 mph speedos but I'm pretty sure that most have been of 1967 and 1968 models.
I'd be very grateful if someone could confirm what should be fitted.
Thanks
CAB

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Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: CAB] #288315
12/10/09 11:08 pm
12/10/09 11:08 pm
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Canada
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LarryLebel Offline
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I know SSM5001/03 is 120mph and my guess is SSM5001/05 is 150mph. I believe either will work but the key is the turns/mile number on the face that is compatible with the speedo gear box. An SSM5001/03 is 1600 turns/mile, so if you get an SSM5001/05 just make sure it is a 1600 turns/mile.

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: LarryLebel] #288455
12/11/09 7:54 pm
12/11/09 7:54 pm
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UK
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CAB Offline OP
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Hello

Thanks for the reply. So it looks as if the 1966 Spitfire could have been fitted with a 120 mph speedo? Does anyone have any photos? It's just that I've never seen one.

Thanks

CAB

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: CAB] #288458
12/11/09 8:22 pm
12/11/09 8:22 pm
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,814
Seattle
Alex Offline

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Not sure what manual you're looking at, but the 1966 BSA unit twins manual (00-5126) specifies a SSM5001/05 speedo and 1.25:1 drive.

[Linked Image]


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Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: Alex] #288471
12/11/09 9:15 pm
12/11/09 9:15 pm
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,558
Auckland NZ
Ignoramus Offline
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Auckland NZ
CAB;
like Larry says its all to do with the turns per mile.

Key to remeber is that generaly the rear wheel (350x18 tyre) turns 800 times per mile.

number on speedo face (see the 1000 in the pic Alex posted) is the turns per mile of speedo head.

so

800 x 2;1 = 1600 which is on the 120mph speedo.
800 x 1.25:1 = 1000 which is on the 150 mph speedo.

Dont know what speedo you bike should have but the above is how you match drive to speedo head.
The diffrent strange ratio ones are usualy for speedos in KPH or non standard rear wheels.

Obviously thats for speedo driven off rear wheel.


"There's the way it ought to be and there's the way it is" (Sgt Barnes)
Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: Ignoramus] #288474
12/11/09 9:58 pm
12/11/09 9:58 pm
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CAB Offline OP
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Looks like there is two versions of the 1966 manual. My copy of the 1966 00-5126 spares manual (engine numbers A65S-101 and frame numbers A50C-101) lists the following on page 76/77; item 27 on the drawing has BSA number 19-2181 Makers number SSM.5001-03 and the description is speedometer head.

My copy of the 1967 00-5129 spares manual (engine numbers A65SA-101 and matching frame numbers) lists the following on page 74/75; for the Lightning, Spitfire, Thunderbolt and Rocket item 27 on the drawing has BSA number 19-8936 Makers number SSM-5001/05 and the description is speedometer head (mph).

My bike has matching A65S (not A65SA engine and frame numbers on both the bike and original logbook). There is another post on here that says that matching engine and frame numbers started in 1966 (not 1967 as some books list) at about frame number 3500 on (I think). My bikes frame number is much higher than this. The 2:1 speedo drive might not be original it was in one of the boxes. I guess my bike could have bits from both years/manuals on it.

I need an original, unmolested MK11 Spitfire with a frame and engine number around A65S-13500 as a reference point if anyone has one knocking about....

CAB

Last edited by CAB; 12/11/09 10:26 pm.
Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: CAB] #288502
12/12/09 12:49 am
12/12/09 12:49 am
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
missouri
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Brian Greenall Offline
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missouri
my unmolested (if you don't count the fire) 1966 spitfire had a 120mph speedo

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: Brian Greenall] #289019
12/14/09 11:26 pm
12/14/09 11:26 pm
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UK
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CAB Offline OP
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Thanks Brian

Did you rebuild the bike or was it a right-off? Does it have a SSM 5001-03 speedo? I don't suppose you know it's engine number and if it was built before or after A65S 135XX. I can't remember the exact number of my bike, it and the paperwork are at my dad's.

CAB

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: CAB] #289058
12/15/09 5:25 am
12/15/09 5:25 am
Joined: Nov 2009
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missouri
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Brian Greenall Offline
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missouri
CAB
the bike was in some sort of fire and was put aside for 30 or so years. i am rebuilding it this winter.
all i can make of what is left of the speedo is that it was a 120mph one and that it had 4,577 miles on it.
serial # is A65.S.53XX

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: Brian Greenall] #289099
12/15/09 2:46 pm
12/15/09 2:46 pm
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CAB Offline OP
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Thanks Brian.
I have messaged another MK11 Spitfire owner to see what he has fitted to his bike. His bike has a frame number around 126XX, mine is 135XX.
How badly damaged was the bike? Good luck with the rebuild.
CAB

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: CAB] #289170
12/16/09 12:54 am
12/16/09 12:54 am
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Carmel, CA
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Doc_dup1 Offline
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I have an original MK II Spitfire with frame number 5691 and it has the 120 mph Speedo if that helps.

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's a Norton, and two BMW's

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: Doc_dup1] #289298
12/16/09 10:13 pm
12/16/09 10:13 pm
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UK
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CAB Offline OP
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Thanks Doc
I have had a reply and we now have a Spitfire with a frame number around 126XX with a 120 mph as well.
As I have a 2:1 speedo drive I'm leaning towards fitting the 120 mph speedo. What we need now is a reply from an owner of a 1966 Spitfire with a frame number higher than 13600 and a 120 mph speedo....
CAB

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: CAB] #289324
12/17/09 2:04 am
12/17/09 2:04 am
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Carmel, CA
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Doc_dup1 Offline
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For waht it's worth, the 2:1 drives are a lot harder to find if you need to replace one. The 1.25:1 are common.

Doc


Doc

Mostly Triumphs with a few BSA's a Norton, and two BMW's

Re: 1966 MK11 Spitfire speedo drive ratio & 120 or 150 mph speedo [Re: CAB] #771006
04/14/19 1:09 pm
04/14/19 1:09 pm
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 43
Sheffield UK
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semprini Offline
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I have a similar problem with my 68 A65. It originally came from Germany and is fitted with a 2:1 gearbox and an SSM 5001/04A 1000 (190km) speedo. The 4.00 x 18 tyre measures 82.5" circumference, so presuming it's 80" when on the road, this will give near enough 1000 turns per mile.

As the original went faulty, I tried new 2 grey-faced 120mph repro heads labelled 2:1 but both read 20% slow at 30mph. I can't remember whether the km (original) one was accurate as it was oscillating too much to be sure.

Last edited by semprini; 04/14/19 1:30 pm.

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