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Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124475 11/04/07 6:25 pm
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HUGOCT Offline
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the two that are easiest to get to:
numbers are on the front and back (both sets)
front right
rear left
upside down
above are:
a dot followed by an upside down D (set #1)
a dot followed by an upside down L (set #2)

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Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124476 11/11/07 6:31 pm
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KADUTZ Offline
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HUGOCT
Thanks for the info we have been VERY short of time lately and hve been unable to reply. I dont think this thread is dead yet.


1970 T120RT
1978 T140V
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124477 11/12/07 7:15 pm
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HUGOCT Offline
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per Pat Owens:
1) they built more than 200, could have been 204, so that they could survive a challange from HD or BSA
Harley had not been allowed to run their XR750 in 1969 because they didn't have all 200 finished and were still pissed off about it and BSA did not want Triumph with a 750 especially on the mile dirttracks (this was such a Skunkworks project that Coates got his brother in law who was the head of east's accounting department to cut Sonny Routt the check for the cylinders without raising any red flags)
2)they were built in the crate, top came of, sides came off, bike stayed on the pallet, gas tank came off, top end got switched, AMA inspected it, T got stamped on, and the crate was reassembled...this was one of the reasons for the "Triumph" casting marks on the cylinder...it had to be the manufacterer's cylinder, not aftermarket...and had to have some way of externaly deferentiating it from the 650 version
3) since they were done in batches on two coasts it would make sense that the AMA kept numbers and reported them as completed
4) the T was an arbitrary pick and means nothing
Coates started the whole deal and figured it started with a T and might as well end with a T
5) there was no coordination between the east and west coast as far as the T stamp itself
6)if it hadn't been for Coates and Owens a BSA would have won the championship in 1970
Triumph winning the championship ruined BSAs marketing plans which were based around the triple and cost Coates his job

Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124478 11/13/07 5:52 am
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KADUTZ Offline
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HUGOCT
Thanks to you and Pat Owens. I believe what you have said in this thread has never been stated prior in any book on Triumphs or articles on the RT. It is truly an insight to the lost history of this model.


1970 T120RT
1978 T140V
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124479 11/13/07 3:21 pm
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GrandPaul Offline
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I REALLY appreciate the history here.

Thanx to one and all who have contributed thus far, and hopefully a more firm foundation can be established with which to authenticate or debunk RT model Bonnies henceforth.

I have seen at least 4 supposed RTs, and ALL were different. It is a pity that some miscreant with a "T" stamp may have ill gotten thousands of dollars.


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124480 11/18/07 12:48 am
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KADUTZ Offline
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in case any on is interested the RT is bac for sale on eBay current bid is $8100


1970 T120RT
1978 T140V
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124481 11/23/07 3:44 am
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KADUTZ Offline
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for those that be interested the bike sold on eBay for $11,100. some one had a good day laugh


1970 T120RT
1978 T140V
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124482 12/11/07 5:20 am
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KADUTZ Offline
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Gentelmen
I have today been sent an release by Mark Mederski who is Executive Director of Motorcycle Hall of Fame Museum in Ohio. I am sure you shall you will soon see it published in many vintage publications. While not offically dated it was issued on Dec 10,2007 and I believe the records were actually found on Dec 4.
I feel Mr Mederski and his staff should be applauded for their efforts in locating these records. They were located after Hugoct told the world about the file being transfered form Pro- Racing. He also should be applauded.
now here is the release

"Dear Triumph Collectors,

For some time there has been reference made by collectors to an official list of specially modified for AMA dirt track racingTriumph T120R Bonneville motorcycles. Commonly they are reffered to as the "RT". Recently the list,probably complete, was discovered in the AMA Homologation files that were transferred to the Motorcycle Hall of Fame Museum about 20 years ago. One collector has already told me this list is the "Holy Grail" of Triumph motorcycle collecting and will be useful in identfying which machines were offically modified with a suffix added to to their serial numbers.


If you have a machine you feel may be from the 200 and some machines in the batches of RT's prepped on the east and west coasts we will compare those numbers to the lists for you. Please send us your serial numbers and state whether they are with a chassis, and if yes, what chassis number in cases where the engine is in a frame other than the original. We will supply back to you on Museum letterhead a statement of whether the number is from the lists in our files. We will keep these homologation numbers and your provided information in our files and confidential. By the way, it will ease the process if you can also supply a self addressed envelope for return of the verification document.

It is nice to know that much of the good work of the Triumph corporation is well cared for in the hands of passionate collectors. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for your interest.

Sincerly,

Mark Mederski

Executive Director

Motorcycle Hall of Fame Museum

13515 Yarmouth Drive

Pickering, Oh 43147


PS The Marque of The Year at AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days,July 25-27 is Triumph. Please plan to attend with your best machines. If you would like to bring a bike for the exclusive Triumph Museum display please let me know. And don't forget to check out the AMA website for more information:www.ama-cycle.org"


1970 T120RT
1978 T140V
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124483 12/11/07 1:16 pm
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trumpetloon Offline
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Bravo!


1974 TR5T
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124484 12/11/07 1:28 pm
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John Healy Offline
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Thank You!!!
John


Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124485 12/11/07 3:36 pm
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GrandPaul Offline
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Has anyone sent in the number of the bike that was on e-bay yet?

What's to stop anyone from doing so?


GrandPaul (does not use emoticons)
Author of the book "Old Bikes"
Too many bikes to list, mostly Triumph & Norton, some BSA & European
"The Iron in your blood should be Vintage"
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124486 12/11/07 4:03 pm
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rick e. Offline
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Good Job!

As time go by, it would be interesting to find out how many frame/engine combo have survived.


"Back in the garage with my [***] detector
Carbon monoxide making sure it's effective...
----THE CLASH-----

Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124487 12/11/07 4:50 pm
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JubeePrince Offline OP
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Wow....who'd thought all this would come about from my original post.......way to go!! Should help alot of people...... :bigt:

Cheers,

Steve


'77 T140J
"Vintage Bike". What's in your garage?

"The paying customer is always right."

Fitting round pegs into square holes since 1961...
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124488 12/11/07 9:31 pm
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Spike Offline
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Great work, Kadutz. Many thanks to you and Mark Mederski at the Museum.

I will be sending a letter to try them out.

Spike

Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124489 12/11/07 11:06 pm
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John Healy Offline
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It wouldn't be out of line to make a donation to the museum. Every little bit helps and Mark works with a small budget!
John


Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124490 12/12/07 2:51 am
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Tri-Hook Offline
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Most interesting reading. I'm so glad I found this site. I was a big fan of the Camel Pro Series back in those days and reading this brought back a lot of great memories. The 1st race I ever went to was the Peoria TT , about 1968 or 69 , as I remember Dick Mann won that race and I was hooked !


Ronnie
Mostly Triumphs
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124491 12/12/07 5:49 am
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KADUTZ Offline
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John Healy
I agree with you regarding the donation 100%

Jubilee Prince
Isn't there a saying somewhere about from a small acorn a large oak tree grows.


1970 T120RT
1978 T140V
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124492 12/12/07 3:05 pm
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Spike Offline
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A donation to the Museum is a good idea. This effort and real action on their part will certainly provide some excellent clarification to the hobby.

I'll make a donation, but separately from the confirmation request, just to keep all appearances squeaky clean. The donation support is clearly for their general role keeping and promoting interest in motorcycle history, and not just for the identification of a number on a list.

Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124493 12/22/07 2:02 am
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HUGOCT Offline
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The AMA has been able to identify three requests for confirmation as serial numbers that are on the AMA certification for homologation list.
There were 145 Towson and 56 Duarte bikes for a total of 201 which would be one over the AMA's required 200
If I was considering the purchase of one of these bikes I would only look at one that was AMA certified
That being said that only guarentees the number on the list not the originality of the bike
Do the folks in England have a list of crankcase numbers for various serial numbers so that original cases could be verified?

Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124494 12/22/07 2:47 am
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trumpetloon Offline
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Since these were all "in the crate" conversions of standard production machines; shouldn't engine and frame numbers match in all cases?


1974 TR5T
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124495 12/22/07 3:12 am
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John Healy Offline
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YES


Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124496 12/22/07 3:20 am
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HUGOCT Offline
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my question was in regard to the bottom or case numbers...does any organization have a database regarding case numbers as relates to serial numbers?

Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124497 12/22/07 4:54 am
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KADUTZ Offline
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Hugoct
ok I'm not a real bright. I have paper work that confirms 2 bikes,by the AMA, mine BD41961 and another. Plus I can confirm a third from another party on this site. Are these the three bikes you refer to or are there three others for a total of six? Also the case numbers are you talking about the VIN numbers or the align boring numbers on the bottom of the cases?

Spike
I have been thinkin about your post
The AMA Museum/Staff spent some man hours finding the records after I asked them to look for them. Further it will take man hours to process any future request for confirm of any one VIN number. I do not feel it would be out of line to include a donation WITH the VIN search request as man hours translate to money paid out.


1970 T120RT
1978 T140V
Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124498 12/22/07 2:36 pm
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HUGOCT Offline
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Sorry to be so confusing but I posted after a 13 hour drive....
I spoke to Mark at the museum and he said that since the announcement he has had three requests
(Requests must be in writing per the announcement)
I was wondering if there is a database that matches the case numbers on the bottom to the serial or VIN numbers so that one could tell if the cases or case have/has been replaced
Looking up in the attic last night it turns out that one of my spare Routt barrels is an RT of the early style that had been heavily painted obscuring the numbers

Re: Interesting Bike......T120RT 750 AMA Racer #124499 12/22/07 10:04 pm
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Spike Offline
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Kadutz,
Your thought on the donation is valid. However, I sent the confirmation request in writing almost two weeks ago. It may be one of the three said to be at the museum now.

I'll send a donation, but it is too late to include it with the request.

Spike

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